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JUSTIFICATION IN CATHOLIC TEACHING
EWTN ^ | 4/1/1996 | James Akin

Posted on 05/23/2008 8:39:53 AM PDT by annalex

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To: annalex
What he said is that Luther’s “dung heap” theory of forensic justification is legal fiction. Catholic teaching is that the soul truly and objectively becomes righteous.

What is this "objectively" term being thrown around with respect to God? God made morality, it is subject to Him. Justification is subject to God, our souls are subject to God, the terms of our unrighteousness are subject to God. There is nothing about our justification that is objective with respect to God.

If you believe that God is subject to a greater morality, then show me the true God who is not and I will believe in Him.

21 posted on 05/23/2008 12:23:42 PM PDT by dan1123 (If you want to find a person's true religion, ask them what makes them a "good person".)
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To: annalex
The purpose of the article is to teach Catholic theology.

Sorry about the tangent.

22 posted on 05/23/2008 12:28:25 PM PDT by dan1123 (If you want to find a person's true religion, ask them what makes them a "good person".)
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To: annalex

If you’re going to teach, you should couch your arguments in terms your students can understand.


23 posted on 05/23/2008 12:29:06 PM PDT by quadrant
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To: annalex
I couldn't find this in the text. What is the Catholic interpretation of 1 Cor. 3:11-15:
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

The author (all Catholics?) argues that justification and sanctification are one and the same, but Paul here separates the foundation of Christ which leads to salvation and our works built on the foundation which leads to heavenly reward. I was hoping this passage would be addressed, but it doesn't seem to be in the article. Did I miss it?

24 posted on 05/23/2008 12:44:06 PM PDT by dan1123 (If you want to find a person's true religion, ask them what makes them a "good person".)
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To: dan1123
Do you agree with this or not?

guilt and innocence, righteousness and unrighteousness, are exactly the kind of objectively real properties that Catholics say they are.

No one is arguing for morality outside of God here.

25 posted on 05/23/2008 12:59:06 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: quadrant

I am not Akin, but I’d be happy to help. What is it that is diffucult for you to understand?


26 posted on 05/23/2008 12:59:57 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: dan1123
Akin refers to this passage only to illustrate the fact that the rewards are different for different people, therefore degrees of righteousness are also different.

The author (all Catholics?) argues that justification and sanctification are one and the same, but Paul here separates the foundation of Christ which leads to salvation and our works built on the foundation which leads to heavenly reward

I don't see a separation of salvation and justification in 1 Cor 3:11-15. St. Paul sees the life of an elect as a process of building upon the foundation of Christ toward greater righteousness, which then culminates in salvation.

27 posted on 05/23/2008 1:09:11 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: drstevej; Gamecock; Jean Chauvin; OrthodoxPresbyterian; CCWoody; Wrigley; jboot; AZhardliner; ...

http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?keyword=justification&entiresite=true

5 solas!


28 posted on 05/23/2008 1:38:03 PM PDT by alpha-8-25-02 ("SAVED BY GRACE AND GRACE ALONE")
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To: quadrant

People rarely leave a church for the music. There are deeper issues. Because of all the personalities ANY church is like herding cats.


29 posted on 05/23/2008 1:42:44 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: quadrant

People rarely leave a church for the music. There are deeper issues. Because of all the personalities ANY church is like herding cats.


30 posted on 05/23/2008 1:42:44 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: annalex
I don't see a separation of salvation and justification in 1 Cor 3:11-15. St. Paul sees the life of an elect as a process of building upon the foundation of Christ toward greater righteousness, which then culminates in salvation.

But when Paul talks about the one who built poorly and it is burned up in the Day, that person is still saved. Doesn't that mean there is separation?

31 posted on 05/23/2008 1:46:05 PM PDT by dan1123 (If you want to find a person's true religion, ask them what makes them a "good person".)
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To: Marysecretary

Yes, they do. The mother of a friend left her Methodist church when a new director of music arrived and introduced contemporary hymns. Did other reasons exist for leaving? Perhaps but without the ability to see into the heart, the question remains unanswered.


32 posted on 05/23/2008 2:50:42 PM PDT by quadrant
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To: annalex

Fortunately, I’m not a theologian and unable to pose a question.


33 posted on 05/23/2008 2:52:54 PM PDT by quadrant
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To: dan1123

No — why?

He build poorly but divine love purifies him, and he is saved in the end.


34 posted on 05/23/2008 3:21:02 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
He build poorly but divine love purifies him, and he is saved in the end.

Doesn't that statement separate sanctification and justification right there?

35 posted on 05/23/2008 3:37:54 PM PDT by dan1123 (If you want to find a person's true religion, ask them what makes them a "good person".)
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To: dan1123

No — which are the parts? I see it as a single process.


36 posted on 05/23/2008 5:39:59 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
I just found this saved link!

The Early Church Fathers on Justification - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

37 posted on 05/23/2008 5:48:35 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: All
And some others:

JUSTIFICATION IN CATHOLIC TEACHING [Open]

Justification: declarative or transformative?

The Early Church Fathers on Justification - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

Questions on Justification (five questions regarding justification and the Bible)

Methodists to affirm Catholic theology (on Justification)

The Meaning of Grace

38 posted on 05/23/2008 6:00:25 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

Thank you.


39 posted on 05/23/2008 6:52:52 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: quadrant

I know in my Methodist church if the bigwigs didn’t like the pastor, he was gone, that doesn’t happen in the Catholic Church.

And in the independents if they don’t like the pastor the church breaks up and splinters again.


40 posted on 05/23/2008 7:13:30 PM PDT by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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