Unmasking the Pope and the Catholic System (Open)

Grace To You ^ | Exact date unknown | John F. MacArthur

[e.Shubee]

John F. MacArthur is no ordinary evangelical. I think that there is something special about him because of the unusual excellence of his book  The Gospel According to Jesus. I consider that book to be the finest exposition on the gospel ever written.

The most surprising thing about John MacArthur is his wide acceptance, given that he believes in the true gospel and takes a strong stand on the historic Protestant understanding of Roman Catholicism. Consider his protestant message, Unmasking the Pope and the Catholic System, delivered shortly after the death of Pope John Paul II, and see if you can either respect or refute his statements.

http://www.bereanbeacon.org/audio_video/UnmaskingThePope.mp3

[mgist]

What is really sad is that we are all guilty. Although I realize how blessed we are to have our Catholic faith, there are also other Christians who I find blessed by the holy spirit like the pope. I enjoy Rick Warren for example. My husband gets upset when I watch him. He thinks they are all “cult-like” anti-Catholics. These few wayward Christians tarnish us all. Real Christians love each other.

[DaveMSmith]

Although I realize how blessed we are to have our Catholic faith, there are also other Christians who I find blessed by the holy spirit like the pope. I enjoy Rick Warren for example.

Thanks so much.

Several years ago now, my soul was lost. My life was falling apart, I was separated from my wife and I was losing my faith in God. I turned on the TV one night and TBN was showing rebroadcasts of Billy Graham crusades. I started to cry a I literally felt the Lord enter my heart and lift my consciousness, will and understanding to heaven. Rev Graham's words echoed through my soul as if they were my own thoughts. The mystical experienced lasted for a long time since.

During that night, the Lord told me what I had to do to set my life back on a new course dedicated to him. First thing was to reconcile my marriage. I flew out to Kansas to see my wife and family over Christmas to work things out. I remember mom looking at me in a wise, knowing way that I had again found my faith. She knew from a look. From then until her death, we could meditate silently together and feel God with us.

After some time, I recall a toxic thread here on FR bashing Rev Graham sourced from either David McCloud or John MacArthur (the thread was pulled). I learned then how the other side operates with their lies and deceit. They want nothing more than to tear down others for their own glory. I'm sure you see the same thing with the anti-Rick Warren threads here. It's mob rule.

I've since found other sites and mailing lists more welcoming to my mystical contemplation and beliefs where I spend time.

Something I was reading from the great mystic, Swedenborg tonight: A persuasion of falsity extinguishes and as it were suffocates everything spiritual and celestial; as everyone may know from much experience, if he pays attention. AC 806

God Bless,

[stfassisi]

Jesus Christ is the 2nd person in the Trinity and the Son of God ETERNALLY. Mac Arthur teaches that Christ is only the Son of God at the Incarnation and teaches that Father and the Son prior to the incarnation as have no significance.

Mac Arthur teaches that Christ became the Son of God within TIME,thus not being eternal

This is satanic theology in denying that the Father and the Son are eternal

[Fichori]

I am under the impression that you are Catholic.

I have seen Catholics imply that anything other than Catholicism is an evil cult.

So when someone who appears to be Catholic says 'thats satanic theology' without in context quotes to show that what they are speaking against is indeed 'satanic theology', I am inclined to believe that its just more of the same.


If John MacArthur is pro-life, should the Catholic church stop being pro-life?

I believe that MacArthur made some good points about the Catholic system.
I also believe he may be in error on some points.

But just because he's not right about everything, doesn't mean I'm going to discard everything he says.

Eat the meat and spit out the bones!

[restornu]

After some time, I recall a toxic thread here on FR bashing Rev Graham sourced from either David McCloud or John MacArthur (the thread was pulled). I learned then how the other side operates with their lies and deceit. They want nothing more than to tear down others for their own glory. I'm sure you see the same thing with the anti-Rick Warren threads here. It's mob rule

Very preceptive and wise of you David!

[stfassisi]

Dear Brother, the experience that you had that you mentioned to mgist is similar to mine. Whenever there is a influx of Grace by the Holy Spirit you will also have the evil one trying to win back what he thought he once owned.The devil is very crafty

I see you mentioned Swedenborg,his work is filled with error , all though he might have meant well he fell into the trap of others throughout Christian history http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14355a.htm

May I suggest reading the great mystic Saint Padre Pio or Teresa of Avila instead

I will keep you in my Prayers

[stfassisi]

If John MacArthur is pro-life, should the Catholic church stop being pro-life? I believe that MacArthur made some good points about the Catholic system. I also believe he may be in error on some points.

There is truth in even what the devil and even demons believe. "They know God is one and the shutter"

[stfassisi]

Correction -should read

“They know God is one and they shutter”

[Fichori]

I recommend that you use verifiable quotes and excerpts for debates.

Otherwise, the only credibility your words have, is that you wrote them.

Re: post 368, I figured you meant 'they', but thanks for clarifying.

[stfassisi]

I recommend that you use verifiable quotes

Fine!-From the Bible... "Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble"- James 2:19 Douay-Rheims

[Fichori]

Excellent way to post bible verses.

What I was actually referring to was, when you say 'so and so teaches this', you should have an in context quote or excerpt to demonstrate that they do indeed 'teach that'

[DaveMSmith]

Eat the meat and spit out the bones!

And where is this 'old saying' in Scripture?

[Fichori]

"And where is this 'old saying' in Scripture?"

'old saying'?

Your words, not mine.


What I did say is "There is a saying,"

Which just happens to be an indisputable fact, because, I use the saying in question.
(And the fact that I used it proves that it exists)


Just because the saying in question may not exist word for word in scripture, does not make in un-scriptural.

Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

1st Peter 3:11

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

3rd John 1:11

Eat whats good, spit out whats not.

[DaveMSmith]

Which just happens to be an indisputable fact

See again post#353, addressed to you.

The LORD said: Matt 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

You have said John F MacArthur is a false prophet regarding his prophecies of the pope being the anti-Christ. The Lord CLEARLY tells in the above passage you to take everything he says and throw it into the fire.

If you need further assistance understanding what the Lord is saying here, let me know

[Fichori]

"You have said John F MacArthur is a false prophet regarding his prophecies of the pope being the anti-Christ." [excerpt]

Nowhere did I use the term "false prophet".

[DaveMSmith]

Post #321 to you: I do not agree with MacArthur (and others) who claim that anti-Christ is the same as “the man of sin” in 2 Thess 2:3. John’s description of anti-Christ is specific: “He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” and “For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.” Not every false teacher is anti-Christ, per the apostle John, who is the only NT writer to use this term.

Post #334 from you: I agree with you about the Antichrist. While the glove may not fit exactly, its still to close for comfort and the RCC stands defiantly on ground they should have never gotten near. It seems that the reformers didn't have a problem calling someone an Antichrist even if they only remotely fit the description. Maybe having the RCC out to kill them caused them jump to inaccurate conclusions. (If I was around back then, I would have probably agreed with them)

No, you did not use the words 'false prophet' but you said that you agreed about MacArthur making a false prophecy about the anti-Christ.

Okay. Parse your words. Ping the RM. I'll leave you to your devices and not post to you again.

[mgist]

Thank you for sharing your beautiful story. I would also suggest reading Jesus of Nazareth - Benedict.

I think highly of Graham also. To me the Pope is simply someone, like Graham, who God commanded to lead his church.

Like Graham he is filled with the holy spirit. Although men are imperfect, the holy spirit is infallable.

So have Pope's made mistakes? Definite YES. Still, like Graham, their contributions and leadership have been essential. To me the church's organization is preferrable to having bizarre cult-like churches and preachers who would pretend to be Catholic.

I'm not saying that all non-Catholics are cult-like, on the contrary many are beautifull. The ones that are however, really give us all a bad name. They are not Christian. They would not be tolerated in the Catholic church.

I've always wondered why so many Jews, especially Israeli's were afraid of these "Christians". Now I see why. Those of us who know God have to work to spread his love.

Bible puts it in Galatians 5:6, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumsion is of any avail, but faith working through love...faith working through love...just as the Church teaches.

[DaveMSmith]

Psalm 1
1 Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
2 but his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on his law he meditates day and night.
3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water, that yields its fruit in its season, and its leaf does not wither. In all that he does, he prospers.

That passage is from a website on Padre Pio: Padre Pio The Mystic - Mysticism Nothing at all on there contradicts in any way Swedenborg's teachings. In fact, it's a great summary of how to lead a spiritual life for any Christian. From experience, I can say it is spot on.

Swedenborg was an active mystic who wrote the doctrines of my religion in the mid 18th century. He was most critical of Catholicism in that day and the religion that is based on his doctrines is derived from the Word alone.

Because of the critical nature, I understand completely that his works be 'filled with error'. Consider this though: Teresa of Avila was almost caught up in the inquisition. John of the Cross was jailed for his beliefs and practices. These two now are doctors of the Church. The RSS is still studying their works and the teachings of Padre Pio. As a result, the Church is evolving.

To a mystic, religion is the symbolism which we express ourselves in human language. Teresa of Avila expressed herself in Catholic symbols -- but if you're knowledgeable of Swedenborg, you will find her CONCEPTS and IDEAS the same. Same with John of the Cross. His dark night describes a state of temptation which one has to pass through before enlightenment.

Swedenborg was given a commission from the Lord to record the doctrines for the New Jerusalem on earth. I can see in the life and teachings of Catholic mystics that they are steering to a universal church based on the same core truths.

I'd suggest keeping an open mind about Swedenborg. His Writings are filled with concise and articulate truth for the developed rational mind. The human mind has evolved in 2,000 years and we believe that now mysteries of faith can now be understood.

Thank you for the tip on Padre Pio. From what I have read, his influence will certainly lead the Catholic Church further to the universal theology.

[stfassisi]

I'd suggest keeping an open mind about Swedenborg. His Writings are filled with concise and articulate truth for the developed rational mind. The human mind has evolved in 2,000 years and we believe that now mysteries of faith can now be understood.

Are you saying that Intellectual miracles by Christians like Saint Irenaues,Crysostom,Aquinas, Benedicta the Cross and others did not understand mysteries of the faith because faith can only be understood by 2000 years of development of the human mind?

If development of the human mind is so important to understanding faith, than how do you explain that man still continues to war, that man still is subject to the elements, that man is still having the same problems that "Moses" wrote about in the Torah?

Development of the mind has not changed anything, despite the advance of modern science. Man is still subject to sin, no matter how much people deny this.

The simplest human mind and the humble who know how to love others are far more spiritually advanced.

BTW, I spent many years on the New Age Movement , Theosophy and the spiritual dangers of the teachings of Carl Jung, Blavatsky and others.

I wish you a Blessed Evening!

[DaveMSmith]

I'm not here to criticize the Church Fathers, Catholic Tradition or miracles. It is what it is. Your Church and mine are being led by the Lord. The pope is a very rational man. I wouldn't use the word 'simple' to ever describe him.

I see the pope able to visualize and articulate, as no other has, the future direction of the Church while maintaining tradition. Again, a simple person could never accomplish that. I see the pope as a critical thinker, not afraid to question the status quo.

Indeed sin is sin, but many don't even recognize the 10 Commandments are the very definition of sin, let alone the spiritual meaning contained within. With that being the case, of course there is war and all sorts of horror in the world.

I see so many man-made barriers put up by prejudice passed down through generations on all sides. The narrow path is to look what is being asked and apply wisdom, which is from the Lord as well as knowledges and understanding, that are learned.

Please don't confuse Swedenborg's consummation of the age/beginning of a new age as 'New Age' as it is popularly known today. Two TOTALLY different things.

Blessings,