Unmasking the Pope and the Catholic System (Open)

It is difficult to see what this objectionable nonsense has to do with Conservatism.

ráthaítear do gach saoránach saoirse choinsiasa is saorchead admhála is cleachta creidimh ach gan san a dhul chun dochair don ord phoiblí ná don mhoráltacht phoiblí

Wow. Can't we all just get along (Rodney King). Some of this stuff is just not accurate. I'm catholic (not cradle) and we study the bible every week at our men's group that's sponsored by my church. We study all aspects of the bible and both of our priests often stop by to sit in and be a resource for us. Most priests I've ever met were extremely well read and knowledgable of the history of the bible. They're not god's, they're a spiritual conduit if you choose and a valuable resource. That's how I see it. Good day.

Don’t you just love selective history? If the writer had any integrity at all, he would have clarified that 1) “bibles” being removed were heavily flawed translations and 2) that it became a capital crime of high treason to practice the Catholic religion with the typical punishment of being disembowled and then drawn and quartered, among other things. Numerous Catholics were martyred during the reigns of “bloody Elizabeth” and others (see the list below).

There is a lot of history not to be proud of from all camps of during this period, but distorting the truth or omitting facts doesn’t help anyone. This article is tripe and beneath the dignity of conservatives, who look not for propaganda, but truth, wherever it leads. There is a great bumper sticker that says “To offend a conservative, tell him a lie; to offend a liberal, tell him the truth.” This article consistent with the values of the Daily Koz and certainly not FR.

For a well written (from a literary perspective) glimpse into this period, Evelyn Waugh’s biography of Edmund Campion http://www.amazon.com/Edmund-Campion-Evelyn-Waugh/dp/1586170430/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211453993&sr=1-1 is excellent. For a comprehensive analysis of the actual conduct and context of the “reformation” in England, Eamon Duffy’s “The Stripping of the Altars” http://www.amazon.com/Stripping-Altars-Traditional-Religion-1400-1580/dp/0300108281/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211453823&sr=8-1
is a comprehensive and well researched source.

For the sake of perspective, Below is a list of English Catholics martyred by Protestants after the reformation.

* The Forty Martyrs of England and Wales (including Saint Edmund Campion and Saint Margaret Clitherow)

* The Eighty-five martyrs of England and Wales, beatified on 22 November 1987

* The 18 Carthusian Martyrs

* Saint John Fisher, an English bishop and cardinal

* Saint Thomas More, the patron of lawyers and statesmen

* Thomas Abel, an English priest martyred by King Henry VIII

* Robert Dalby (Blessed) , an English priest

* James Duckett (Blessed), an English layman

* John Duckett (Blessed), an English priest

* John Forrest (friar), an English friar

* George Gervase, an English priest

* Edward James (Blessed), an English priest

* Robert Johnson (Catholic martyr), an English priest

* Blessed John Nelson

* Blessed Thomas Pickering

* Maurus Scott, also known as William Scott

* Thomas Sherwood, a layman

* Thomas Thwing (Blessed), an English priest

* Robert Wilcox (saint)

* Peter Wright (Blessed), an English priest

Contents
[hide]

* 1 List of Catholic clerics executed in England 1530 - 1680
o 1.1 1530 - 1560
o 1.2 1561 - 1600
o 1.3 1601 - 1680
o 1.4 No precise date of martyrdom available
* 2 Bibliography

[edit] List of Catholic clerics executed in England 1530 - 1680

[edit] 1530 - 1560

* Thomas Abel, priest, 1540
* John Allen, priest, 1538
* George Ashby (Asleby), monk, 1537

* Ralph Barnes, monk, 1537
* Elizabeth Barton, Benedictine nun, 1534
* Ralph Bayle, bishop, 1559
* John Beche, Abbot, Chester, 1539
* Thomas Belohiam, Franciscan friar, 1538
* Arthur Bell, Franciscan friar, 1543
* Richard Bere, Carthusian monk, 1537
* Robert Bird, priest, 1540
* William Bird, priest, 1540
* Laurence Blonham, monk, 1537
* Edward Bocking, Benedictine, 1537
* Edmund Brindholme, priest, 1544
* Anthony Brookby, Franciscan, 1538
* Thomas Brownel, Brigittine brother
* Edward Burden, priest, 1538
* William Burraby, priest, 1537

* James Cockerell, Prior of Guisborough Abbey, 1537
* William Coe, monk, 1537
* Lawrence Cook, Carmelite. Prior of Doncaster Abbey, 1540
* Richard Coppinger, Benedictine, 1558
* Thomas Cort, Franciscan, 1537
* Martin Coudres, Augustinian monk, 1544
* William Cowper, monk, 1537
* George Croft, priest, 1538

* John Davy, Carthusian, 1537
* John Dering, Benedictine, 1537

* John Eastgate, monk, 1537
* Richard Eastgate, monk, 1537
* Thomas Empson, Benedictine, 1540
* William Exmew, Carthusian monk, 1535
* John Eynon, Benedictine monk, 1539

* Hugh Faringdon, Abbot of Reading, 1539
* Richard Featherstone, Archdeacon, 1540
* John Fisher, Saint, Bishop, 1535
* John Forrest, Franciscan friar, 1538
* John Francis, monk, 1537

* German Gardiner, 1548
* Henry Gold, priest, 1537
* William Greenwood, Carthusian brother, 1537
* William Gylham, monk, 1537

* John Hale (Haile), priest, 1535
* Richard Harrison, Abbot of Jervaulx, 1537
* William Haydock, monk, 1537
* Nicholas Heath, Prior of Lenton, 1537
* John Henmarsh, priest, 1537
* Robert Hobbes, Abbot of Woburn, 1537
* John Houghton, Saint, Carthusian prior, 1535

* John Ireland, priest, 1544

* Roger James, Benedictine, 1539
* Henry Jenkinson, monk, 1537

* Thomas Kendal, priest, 1537

* John Larke, priest, 1543
* Richard Laynton, monk, 1537
* Robert Leeche, layman, 1537
* Hugh Londale, monk, 1537

* Matthew Mackerel, Ord. Priem., bishop of Chalcedon, 1537
* James Mallet, priest, 1537
* Richard Masters, priest, 1537
* Humphrey Middlemore, Carthusian monk, 1535

* Sebastian Newdigate, Carthusian monk, 1535

* Owen Oglethorpe, bishop, 1559

* John Paslew, Abbot of Whatley, 1537
* Paul of Saint William, Augustinian monk, 1544
* William Peterson, priest, 1540
* John Pickering, Benedictine, prior of York, 1537
* John Pickering, priest, 1537
* Walter Pierson, Carthusian, 1537
* Edward Powell, priest, 1540

* Thomas Redforlh, priest, 1537
* Hugh Rich, Franciscan friar, 1534
* William Richardson, priest, 1540
* Richard Risby, Franciscan friar, 1534
* John Rochester, Carthusian monk, 1537
* John Rugg, monk, Reading, 1539

* Adam Sedbar, Abbot of Jervaulx, 1537
* Robert Singleton, priest, 1544
* Thomas Slythurst, priest, 1560
* John Stone, Saint, friar, 1538
* William Swale, monk, 1537

* John Tenant, monk, 1537
* John Thorne, monk, Glastonbury, 1539
* William Thyrsk, Cistercian, 1537
* William Trafford, Abbot of Sawley, 1537
* John Travers, monk, 1539
* Cuthbert Tunstall, bishop, 1559

* Richard Wade, monk, 1537
* Friar Waire, Franciscan, 1539
* James Walworth, Carthusian monk, 1537
* Augustine Webster, Saint, Carthusian monk, 1535
* John White, bishop, 1560
* Sister Isabel Whitehead, Benedictine nun
* Richard Whiting, Abbot of Glastonbury, 1539

[edit] 1561 - 1600

* John Ackridge, priest, 1585
* Thomas Ackridge, Franciscan, 1583
* John Adams, priest, 1586
* Thomas Alfield, priest, 1585
* John Almond, Cistercian, 1585
* John Amias, priest, 1589
* Robert Anderton, priest, 1586
* William Andleby, priest, 1597

* William Baldwin (Bawden), priest, 1588
* Christopher Bales, priest, 1590
* Thomas Bedal, priest, 1590
* George Beesley, priest, 1591
* William Blackburne, priest, 1586
* John Bodey, priest, 1583
* Edmund Bonner, bishop, 1569
* John Boste, Saint, priest, 1594
* Gilbert Bourne, bishop, 1569
* Richard Bowes, priest, 1590
* John Boxall, priest, 1571
* Alexander Briant, Jesuit priest, 1581
* James Brushford, priest, 1593
* Christopher Buxton, priest, died Canterbury, 1588

* Edmund Campion, Jesuit priest, 1581
* William Chedsey, priest, 1561
* James Claxton (Clarkson), priest, 1588
* James Clayton, priest, 1588
* Henry Cole, priest, 1580
* Laurence Collier, Franciscan, 1590
* John Collins, priest, 1584
* Henry Comberford, priest, 1584
* John Cornelius, Jesuit priest, 1594
* Thomas Cotesmore, priest, 1584
* Thomas Cottam, Jesuit priest, 1582
* Richard Creagh, archbishop of Armagh, 1585
* Ralph Crockett, priest, 1588
* Alexander Crowe, priest, 1587
* Thomas Crowther, priest, 1585

* Robert Dalby, priest, York, 1589
* William Davies, priest, 1594
* William Dean, priest, 1588
* Richard (Robert) Dibdale]], priest, 1586
* Francis Dicconson, priest, 1590
* Roger Dicconson, priest, 1591
* George Douglas, priest, 1587
* Anthony Draycott, priest, 1570
* Edmund Duke, priest, 1590

* Edward Edwardes (alias Campion), priest, 1588

* John Feckenham, Benedictine, abbot of Westminster, 1585
* Thomas Felton, Franciscan, 1588
* James Fenn, priest, 1584
* John Fenwick, Jesuit priest, 1579
* John Finch, priest, 1584
* John Finglow, priest, 1586
* William Freeman, priest, 1595

* Thomas Gabyt, Cistercian, 1575
* Nicholas Garlick, priest, 1588
* Miles Gerard, priest, 1590
* Nicholas Grene, priest, 1571
* - Gretus, priest
* John Griffith (alias Jones), Saint, Franciscan friar, 1598
* William Gunter, priest, 1588

* William Hambledon, priest, 1585
* John Hambley, priest, 1587
* Everard Hanse, priest, 1581
* Nicholas Harpsfield, priest, 1575
* William Harrington, priest, 1594
* John Harrison, priest, 1586
* William Harrison, priest, 1594
* William Hart, priest, 1583
* William Hartley, priest, 1588
* Thomas Harwood, priest, 1586
* Richard Hatton, priest, 1584
* George Haydock, priest, 1584
* Nicholas Heath, archbishop of York, 1578
* Thomas Hemerford, priest, 1584
* John Hewitt, priest, 1588
* Richard Hill, priest, 1590
* John Hogg, priest, 1590
* Thomas Holford, priest, 1588
* Richard Holliday, priest, 1590
* Robert Holmes, priest, 1584
* Richard Horner, priest, 1598

* Francis Ingleby, priest, 1586
* John Ingram, priest, 1594

* Edward James, priest, 1588
* Edmund Jennings (Genings), Saint, priest, 1591
* John Jetter, priest, 1585
* Lawrence Johnson, priest, 1582
* Edward Jones, priest, 1590

* Luke Kirby, Saint, priest, 1582

* Joseph Lambton, priest, 1593
* Richard Leigh, priest, 1588
* James Lomax, priest, 1584
* John Lowe, priest, 1586
* Robert Ludlam, priest, 1588

* William Marsden, priest, 1586
* Roger Martin, priest, 1592
* Cuthbert Mayne, Saint, priest, 1577
* Thomas Metham, Jesuit, 1592
* Anthony Middleton, priest, 1590
* Robert Morton, priest, 1588
* Thomas Mudde, Cistercian, 1583
* John Munden, priest, 1584

* John Nelson, priest, 1577
* George Nichols, priest, 1589
* John Nutter, priest, 1584
* Robert Nutter, priest, 1600

* Edward Oldcorne, Jesuit priest, 1561
* Edward Osbaldeston, priest, 1594

* Antony Page, priest, 1593
* Thomas Palasor, priest, 1600
* Richard Pate, bishop, 1565
* William Patenson, priest, 1592
* John Payne, Saint, priest, 1582
* Thomas Pilchard, priest, 1587
* Polydore Plasden, priest, 1591
* Thomas Plumtree, priest, 1570
* Edward Pole, priest, 1585
* David Poole, bishop, 1568
* Thomas Pormort, priest, 1592

* Alexander Rawlins, priest, 1595
* Christopher Robinson, priest, Carlisle, 1598
* John Robinson, priest, 1588
* John Roche, priest, 1588
* Stephen Rowsham, priest, 1587

* John Sandys, priest, 1586
* Montford Scott, priest, 1591
* Thomas Sedgwick, priest, 1573
* Richard Sergeant, priest, 1586
* Martin Sherson, priest, 1587
* John Shert, priest, 1582
* Peter Snow, priest, 1598
* Robert Southwell, priest, 1595
* William Spenser, priest, 1589
* Thomas Sprott, priest, 1600
* James Stonnes, priest, 1585
* John Storey, Chancellor to Bishop Bonner, 1571
* Edward Stransham, priest, 1586
* Robert Sutton, priest, 1587
* Edmund Sykes, priest, 1587
* Robert Sympson (or Richard Sympson), priest, 1588

* Gabriel Thimelby, priest, 1587
* Richard Thirkeld, priest, 1583
* Thomas Thirlby, bishop, 1570
* James Thompson, priest, York, 1582
* John Thompson, Jesuit
* William Thomson, priest, 1586
* Hugh Taylor, priest, York, 1585
* Robert Thorpe, priest, 1591
* Edward Thwing, priest, 1600
* James Turberville, bishop, 1570

* Lawrence Vaux, priest, 1585

* Roger Wakeman, priest, 1584
* Sir Edward Waldegrave, 1561
* Henry Walpole, Saint, priest, 1595
* Edward Waterson, priest, 1593
* Thomas Watson, bishop of Lincoln, 1584
* William Way (alias May or Flower), priest, 1588
* Swithin Wells, priest, 1591
* Richard Weston, Jesuit
* Christopher Wharton, priest, 1600
* Eustace White, priest, 1591
* Robert Wilcox, priest, 1588
* Richard Williams, priest, 1592
* Thomas Wood, priest, 1588
* John Woodcock, Franciscan, 1646
* Nicholas Woodfen, priest, 1586

* Richard Yaxley, priest, 1589

[edit] 1601 - 1680

* Placid Aldham (Adelham), Benedictine, 1679
* William Allison, priest, 1681
* John Almond, Saint, priest, 1612
* Edmund Arrowsmith, Jesuit priest, 1628
* Ralph Ashley, Jesuit priest, 1606
* William Atkins, Jesuit, 1681
* Nicholas Atkinson, priest, 1610
* Thomas Atkinson, priest, 1616

* Edward Bamber, priest, 1646
* Mark Barkworth, Benedictine, 1601
* Ambrose Edward Barlow, Saint, priest, 1641
* Thomas Bedingfeld, Jesuit, 1678
* William Bentney (alias Bennet), Jesuit, 1692
* Richard Birkett, priest, 1680
* Thomas Blount, priest, 1647
* Richard Bradley, Jesuit, 1645
* Matthew Brazier (alias Grimes), Jesuit, 1650
* James Brown, Benedictine, 1645
* Thomas Bullaker, priest, 1642

* Roger Cadwallador, priest, 1610
* Edmund Cannon, priest, 1651
* Brian Cansfield, Jesuit, 1643
* Edmund Catheriok, priest, 1642
* Walter Coleman, Franciscan, 1645
* Benedict Constable, Benedictine, 1683
* Ralph Corbie, Jesuit, 1644
* Robert Cox, Benedictine, 1650

* Christopher Dixon, Augustinian, 1616
* Robert Drury, priest, 1607
* John Duckett, priest, 1644
* Thomas Dyer, Benedictine, c.1618-1630
* Robert Edmonds, Benedictine, 1615
* Philip Evans, Jesuit, 1679

* Roger Filcock, priest, 1601
* Matthew Flathers, priest, 1607
* Thomas Foster (Forster), Jesuit, 1648
* Andrew Fryer (alias Herne or Richmond), priest, 1651
* Henry Garnet, Jesuit, 1606
* Thomas Garnet, Saint, Jesuit priest, 1608
* John Gavan, Jesuit priest, 1679
* John Gerard, priest, Jesuit, 1637
* George Gervase, Benedictine, 1608
* John Goodman, priest, 1645
* Hugh Green, priest, 1642

* William Harcourt, Jesuit, 1679
* James Harrison, priest, 1602
* Hebry Heath, Franciscan friar, 1643
* Ildephonse Hesketh (alias William Hanson), Benedictine, 1644
* Thomas Holland, priest, 1642
* Thomas Hunt, priest, 1600
* Thurstan Hunt, priest, 1601

* William Ireland, Jesuit priest, 1679

* Thomas Jennison, Jesuit, 1679

* John Kemble, Saint, priest, 1679
* David Joseph Kemys (Kemeys), monk, 1680

* Richard Lacey, Jesuit, 1680
* Francis Levison, Franciscan, 1679
* David Lewis, Jesuit, 1679
* John Lloyd, Saint, priest, 1679
* William Lloyd, priest, 1679
* John Lockwood, priest, 1642

* Laurence Mabbs, Benedictine, 1641
* Charles Mahoney (alias Meehan), Franciscan friar, 1679
* Thomas Maxfield, priest, 1616
* Edward Mico, Jesuit, 1678
* Robert Middleton, priest, 1601
* William Middleton (alias Heathcote), Benedictine, 1644
* Thomas Molineux, Jesuit, 1681
* Edward Morgan, priest, 1642
* Henry Morse, Saint, Jesuit priest, 1645

* George Napper, priest, Oxford, 1610
* Francis Nevil, Jesuit, 1679
* Richard Newport, priest, 1612

* Francis Page, Jesuit, 1602
* Placid Peto, Benedictine, 1642-1643
* John Pibush, priest, 1601
* Thomas Pickering, Benedictine, 1679
* William Plessington, priest, 1679
* Nicholas Postgate, priest, 1679
* Philip Powel, Benedictine, 1646
* Thomas Preston (alias Roger Widdrington), Benedictine, 1640

* Francis Quashet, priest, 1642

* Thomas Reynolds (alias Green), priest, 1642
* William Richardson, priest, 1603
* John Roberts, Saint, Benedictine, 1610
* Alban Bartholomew Roe, Saint, Benedictine monk, 1642
* William Scot, 1612
* Thomas Somers, priest, 1610
* William Southerne, priest, 1618
* Saint John Southworth, priest, 1654
* John Sugar, priest, 1604

* John Thulis, priest, 1616
* Thomas Thwing, priest, 1679
* Thomas Tichborne, priest, 1602
* Cuthbert Tunstall, priest, 1616
* Thomas Tunstall, priest, 1616
* Anthony Turner, Jesuit, 1679
* Edward Turner, Jesuit, 1681

* John Wall, Saint, Franciscan friar, 1679
* William Ward, Saint, priest, 1641
* Robert Watkinson, priest, 1602
* Thomas Whitaker, priest, 1646
* Thomas Whitbread, Jesuit, 1679

* Edward Wilkes, priest, 1642
* Thomas Woodhouse, priest, 1572
* Peter Wright, Jesuit, 1651

[edit] No precise date of martyrdom available

* Richard Adams, priest
* Thomas Belser, priest
* William Bannersley, priest
* Humphrey Browne, Jesuit
* George ab Alba Rose, Augustinian
* James Gerard, priest
* John Hudd, Jesuit
* Thomas Moyne
* John Pearson, priest
* John Penketh, Jesuit
* Cuthbert Prescott, Jesuit
* Ignatius Price, Jesuit
* Charles Pritchard, Jesuit
* Thomas Ridall, priest
* John Rivers (alias Austen Abbot), priest
* Thomas Scryven
* Francis Simeon, Jesuit
* James Swarbrick, priest
* Charles Thursley, Jesuit
* Thomas Vaughan, priest
* John Young, priest
* Boniface Wilford, Benedictine

Most priests I've ever met were extremely well read and knowledgable of the history of the bible.

There's the rub...I've read numerous times here on FR where you guys study Catholic history as opposed to actually studying the scriptures...

Excellent Post!

I don’t know why you don’t want to listen to it, a little history never hurt anyone.

As they say "a little bit of knowledge is dangerous. The mp3 is not history but rather a polemic that selective gathers some historical facts and selectively omits others. If you want a much better written polemic, read Hillaire Belloc's "How the Reformation Happened." which is brilliant, but emphasizes some facts and omits others in support of a Catholic view. Why don't you read it. "A little bit of history never hurt anyone.

I hope that you see my point.

There is a lot of history not to be proud of from all camps of during this period, but distorting the truth or omitting facts doesn’t help anyone.

Exactly!

The FACT is that the world was a fairly violent place to start with before the Reformation. The violence that ensued during the Reformation was not so much about religion as it was simply the matter in which disputes of the day were handled. And it must be remembered that the Reformation, ESPECIALLY in England, was as much about politics as it was about religion.

Obviously this DOES NOT make it right or acceptable, but to pretend that one side was right and the other wrong is simply erroneous. We CANNOT apply 21st century Western standards of settling political and religious disputes to the 15th and 16th century.

Because the title strongly suggests the “history” will be inaccurate and misrepresented.
That leaves the dissenting listener/reader in the position of documenting the errors and presenting a rebuttal, all for the benefit of who?
One poster on FR?
Lot’s of work for a small audiance.

I’ve quit visiting the religion forum, it has gotten a bit too klanish....

It would be just as easy to copy and paste the pages from Foxe’s Book of Martyrs but I won’t waste the time and bandwidth...

“You guys”, that’s funny. Where in my post did I say anything about studying catholic history. It’s a bible study. And what’s wrong with a catholic studying catholic history? There’s no rub. Believe what you believe. Like all churches, the catholic church is not perfect, nor are the priests and it’s filled with sinners. I believe in Jesus Christ and I’m just trying to be the best person I can be and follow his teachings to the best of my ability. I can only hope that it’s good enough for him in the end.

I see you mention Rome (over and over).

I did not.

It would be just as easy to copy and paste the pages from Foxe’s Book of Martyrs but I won’t waste the time and bandwidth...

That's a wise decision. Skip Foxe and just stick with historical facts.

I simply don’t understand why some Christians attack other Christians. Honestly, wouldn’t children, husband, and wives be happier, and our nation stronger and more prosperous, if we all practiced our various interpretations of our Christian faith?

I support Catholics. I wish we had more of them who were fully committed to practicing their religion..**ALL** of the principles of their religion.

By the way, when it comes to attacking other religions, I don’t recall Catholics doing this on FR. Good for them!

Rome hates the Bible. Rome FEARS the Bible.

Yeah, that's why they grant laypeople indulgences for studying it, because they hate it and FEAR it.

That's why most Catholic parishes (perhaps almost all) sponsor Bible study groups for their parishioners.

That's why Scott Hahn churns out one taped Bible study after another. That's why he has a whole apostolate dedicated to promoting Bible scholarship among Catholic priests and laity. That's why Ignatius Press has a whole section of Bibles of various kinds.

To put it charitably, what you're saying is just plain crazy.

I’ve heard Catholics on FR exude their hatred for the King James Bible

The KJV is not awful. There are a few things in it that are just plain wrong. There are other things that are confusing to modern ears because they're in Elizabethan English.

The Bible I normally use is the RSV-CE, which is based on the KJV. That's the English translation most Catholic exegetes promote.

Given a choice between the KJV and e.g., the NIV, or one of the many banal "dumbed-down easy-to-read kinda-like-the-Bible" translations, I'd take the KJV any day.