Posted on 05/17/2008 9:41:37 AM PDT by markomalley
Incredibly, you wrote:
“To be accurate, all of Christianity was born of distortions, heresy and schism.”
No, Christianity is born of Christ. Protestantism is born of distortions, heresy and schism.
“It just depends on the time and the sect screaming the loudest.”
No again. Orthodox Christians don’t have sects. Protestant groups are sects.
“Take the Orthodox for instance, it was born out of a schism in 1054. So what’s another 400 years for the Reformation?”
The Orthodox can not truly be said to be born out of schism in 1054 or any other time. They already existed as sui juris churches before the schism after all.
“And heresy, those crying the loudest are just mad that they are losing all the revenue of the mega churches along with the numbers flocking to a vibrant and free life in Christ.”
No, heresy really exists, and it is Protestants who spread it.
What distortions? What heresy? By the way, does the Orthodox church permit Bishops and Patriarchs to marry and have a family? Are Bishops and Patriarchs still only drawn from monastic classes?
“Orthodox Christians don’t have sects.”
Let's see, there's Greek, Ukrainian, Russian; each Patriarch having authority within a nation. See, Protestants just divide into denominations, Orthodoxy divides by countries.
“The Orthodox can not truly be said to be born out of schism in 1054 or any other time.”
Now that is what all churches say. For instance, the Roman Catholics say they are the true church; Protestants say they are the true church and now the Orthodox say they are the true church.
“No, heresy really exists, and it is Protestants who spread it.”
What is the heresy that Protestants have spread? Is it salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus in His death, burial and resurrection? What is the heresy?
Sola scriptura. Sola fide. Deprecation of Mary. Relativist interpretation of Scripture.
There is no interpretation of all of the works of Vatican II that can fit on a gum wrapper. Studying it will require scholarship.
“Sola scriptura. Sola fide.”
Only to the anti-Protestants is this considered heresy. There is nothing in the scriptures that “sola scriptura or sola fide” contradicts. It is only when one relies on its anti-Protestant tradition is there a conflict and that’s not heresy but a difference of opinion.
As to the “Deprecation of Mary”, Protestants just let the scriptures speak for itself as they do for Peter, not reading any more into it than what the scripturs say. It is tradition that encumbers Mary and Peter with reputations that their histories cannot account for. That would be a “relativist” interpretation of the scriptures; reading into it what the church wants the outcome to be.
There is nothing in the scriptures that teaches “sola scriptura” or “sola fide.” They are confections of rebellious pride.
Ironically, Protestants read into Scriptures the notion that nothing is needed but Scripture.
“Ironically, Protestants read into Scriptures the notion that nothing is needed but Scripture”
Nothing ironical about it; that’s what the scriptures say.
“And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.”
Is this a discussion of Christianity or a junior high cafeteria?
There’s no “sola” in there.
No, but nowhere does it say that anything other than the scriptures can make one wise unto salvation. so, if one has the scriptures it is all that one needs to make one wise unto salvation; all that is necessary in contained in the scriptures. All else is man made commentary, convenient for whatever man thinks but superfluous for salvation.
Thank you for the admission.
As for "sola fide," Luther knew that concept wasn't in Scripture. That's why he added the word "alone" to Romans 3:28. If he believed Scripture already stated "faith alone," he would have had no reason to try to add it.
False. You've contradicted yourself.
“False. You’ve contradicted yourself.”
Perhaps you missed something in the reply. “if one has the scriptures it is all that one needs to make one wise unto salvation; all that is necessary in contained in the scriptures”. There is no contradiction.
False. You have contradicted yourself.
“False. You have contradicted yourself.”
Just keep repeating it in place of evidence. My grandchildren do that when they disagree.
The evidence is your post.
You wrote:
“What distortions? What heresy?”
Protestantism? Sola scriptura, sole fide, et al.
“By the way, does the Orthodox church permit Bishops and Patriarchs to marry and have a family? Are Bishops and Patriarchs still only drawn from monastic classes?”
What does it matter since none of those things are doctrines?
“Let’s see, there’s Greek, Ukrainian, Russian; each Patriarch having authority within a nation. See, Protestants just divide into denominations, Orthodoxy divides by countries.”
No. The Orthodox did not divide along national lines. Churches grew along linguistic and cultural boundries. None of the Orthodox Churches, however, made a decision to serve only one people. The Russian Orthodox Church, fo instance, has always severed non-Russians such as the Finns, Setu, Mordvins, native Alaskans, etc.
“Now that is what all churches say. For instance, the Roman Catholics say they are the true church;”
Catholic claims to being the only true Church are in no way related to your odd claims.
“Protestants say they are the true church...”
Actually Protestants generally DON’T claim that their sects are the true church, but that the invisible church they also claim to be in is the true church.
“... and now the Orthodox say they are the true church.”
Now? As if that claim is new? And your odd claims have nothing to do with the Orthodox churches either.
“What is the heresy that Protestants have spread? Is it salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus in His death, burial and resurrection? What is the heresy?”
Sola fide, sola scriptura, et al.
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it. – Deuteronomy 12:32
Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with [their] lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, [It is] Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; [he shall be free]. And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. – Mark 7:5-13
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.- I Corinthians 2:6-14
“The evidence is your post.”
Right, so there is no contradiction that can be pointed out. When there is an intelligent response, get back to me.
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