Do Protestants consider Catholics to be Christians? [open]

5/16/08 | me

[netmilsmom]

Stemming from this comment

>>I think the RCC doctrines are a product of the enemy<<

Please tell us where we stand here. Examples welcome, but I'm not sure that actual names can be used when quoting another FReeper, so date and thread title may be better.

[topcat54]

The entire quote from Athanasius might prove helpful:

(3:54) As, then, he who desires to see God Who by nature is invisible and not to be beheld, may yet perceive and know Him through His works, so too let him who does not see Christ with his understanding at least consider Him in His bodily works and test whether they be of man or God. If they be of man, then let him scoff; but if they be of God, let him not mock at things which are no fit subject for scorn, but rather let him recognize the fact and marvel that things divine have been revealed to us by such humble means, that through death deathlessness has been made known to us, and through the Incarnation of the Word the Mind whence all things proceed has been declared, and its Agent and Ordainer, the Word of God Himself. He, indeed, assumed humanity that we might become God. He manifested Himself by means of a body in order that we might perceive the Mind of the unseen Father. He endured shame from men that we might inherit immortality. He Himself was unhurt by this, for He is impassable and incorruptible; but by His own impassability He kept and healed the suffering men on whose account He thus endured. In short, such and so many are the Savior's achievements that follow from His Incarnation, that to try to number them is like gazing at the open sea and trying to count the waves. One cannot see all the waves with one's eyes, for when one tries to do so those that are following on baffle one's senses. Even so, when one wants to take in all the achievements of Christ in the body, one cannot do so, even by reckoning them up, for the things that transcend one's thought are always more than those one thinks that one has grasped.

As we cannot speak adequately about even a part of His work, therefore, it will be better for us not to speak about it as a whole. So we will mention but one thing more, and then leave the whole for you to marvel at. For, indeed, everything about it is marvelous, and wherever a man turns his gaze he sees the Godhead of the Word and is smitten with awe.

Athanasius’ words are Christological. It’s all about Him, not about us.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Men do not become “gods.”

[1000 silverlings]

An heir inherits an alotment, he does not become the giver of the inheritance

.Romans8:14

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God , and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

[wagglebee]

Men do not become “gods.”

Unless there have been some Mormon posts on this thread that I missed, NOBODY on this thread believes they do.

[topcat54]

I look up how Calvinists define “Calvinist” and go with that.

Since I’m not talking to one that would not be very helpful, now would it? You were the one who asked the question. I guess you weren’t really looking for an answer.

[wagglebee]

NOBODY believes they do. Just as Calvin’s definition of “deify” does not mean that we actually become gods, neither does the statement by Aquinas.

I don’t know if you’ve ever read Aquinas. I did years ago and probably should again, because at the time I didn’t get it at all. It is VERY DIFFICULT reading.

[Petronski]

Your post is very illuminating. It even suggest a motive for deleting footnotes (lest someone reach a fuller understanding of the words).

[Petronski]

To be precise, I did not ask a question.

[OLD REGGIE]

Have you tried Vatican.org? I hear it’s free of those annoying footnote numbers.

Let me see now.................??????????

The average human is not capable of interpreting Scripture. So................

You follow the footnotes which you also are not capable of interpreting. So.....................

You go to the Catechism which you are also not capable of interpreting. So.......................

You attempt to follow the Scriptural references which you are not capable of interpreting. So...............

You attempt to follow the footnote references to various Church Fathers which you also are not capable of interpreting. So....................

Forget the numerous Apologetics concerning. Obviously you are not capable of interpreting them. Heaven forbid going to the Code Of Canon Law. Only a select few are capable of interpreting the Code and they never agree with each other. So...........

You give up and revert to basically the way I was taught. SHUT UP, DON'T ASK QUESTIONS, AND DO WHAT WE TELL YOU TO DO. OH, BY THE WAY, MEMORIZE THE FIRST 20 Q & A's FROM THE BALTIMORE CATECHISM.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

"...He, indeed, assumed humanity that we might become God. He manifested Himself by means of a body in order that we might perceive the Mind of the unseen Father. He endured shame from men that we might inherit immortality."

So we have here three postulates. We...

1) become God

2) perceive the mind of God

3) inherit immortality

The second and third points are Scriprural. As Paul said, "But we have the mind of Christ."

How do you understand that by "possessing" the mind of God and by "inheriting" immortality, we then "become God?"

Do men actually "become God?"

[Running On Empty]

How very interesting..

[1000 silverlings]

Christ is the firstborn of the new creation, and He is our forerunner, our Exemplar: we are made joint heirs with Him and we inherit the Kingdom.

Hebrews 12:23

To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

[Dr. Eckleburg]

An heir inherits an alotment, he does not become the giver of the inheritance

AMEN.

[Petronski]

Separating oneself from the fullness of Truth in the Catholic Church (even temporarily) seems to MAKE SOME PEOPLE VERY ANGRY!!!

I pray for them.

[CTrent1564]

Thanks, I am sorry I didn’t respond sooner, but I got into the “fray once again”, so to speak.

Cheers

[Dr. Eckleburg]

DR.E: Men do not become "gods."

WAGGLE: Unless there have been some Mormon posts on this thread that I missed, NOBODY on this thread believes they do.

Then Catholics on this thread do not believe the RCC catechism as found at Vatican.va #460.

460 - The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature":78 "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."79 "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."80 "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."81

[81] Aquinas

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Ah, for the clarity of the Baltimore catechism. 8~)

[Marysecretary]

Hmm, are you getting ‘personal’ Petronski?

[Marysecretary]

I have a sister in law who is a Jehovah’s Witness, and she does love me. Also my hair dresser, also several nieces and nephews. I’m not a stranger to that group either.

[Marysecretary]

Oh, don’t worry, I will.