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To: Claud; XeniaSt
The old Aramaic Peshitta of Matthew has Keepa/Keepa with no distinction like we find in Attic petros/petra, i.e. "You are Keepa, and upon this Keepa I will build my Church". Here's a pdf of Matt 16 in Aramaic with the interlinear translation

It's all Greek to me :)

Anyway -- I wonder how many words there are for "rock" in the Aramaic, because in the Hebrew there are two main words for "rock" -- the Hebrew "tsur" and "cela" -- both massive rocks that can be used as foundations or strongholds.

But Jesus did not use those words for Peter's surname. Instead he called him "Cephas" -- "Keepa" in Aramaic from "keph" in Hebrew which means "a hollow rock".

A hollow rock is certainly not something that you would use as the foundation of your church [although many churches are built over grottos].

89 posted on 05/16/2008 8:47:06 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Uncle Chip
It's all Greek to me :)

[although many churches are built over grottos].

;-)

90 posted on 05/16/2008 9:04:51 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: Uncle Chip
"Keepa" in Aramaic from "keph" in Hebrew which means "a hollow rock".

Where are you getting this derivation? Any Hebrew cognate of this word is interesting, but you can't use that cognate as evidence to supersede the meaning it actually has in Aramaic.

To wit, if you go to Jimmy Akin's site, you'll see this very issue of "hollow rock" is discussed.

Forget about the apologetic stuff there for the moment, and just skip down to the center of the thread, where you'll see a scan Jimmy has from "A Compendious Syriac Dictionary" by R. Payne Smith. Syriac is of course a dialect of Aramaic.

Take a look at the definitions there that are given for Kepha: stone, rock, stone vessel, column, idol, grindstone, whetstone, millstone, etc. Nothing there about hollowness. You could probably make a case for a vessel being a hollow stone. But there are plenty more meanings where you can't....whoever heard of a hollow grindstone or millstone?

97 posted on 05/16/2008 11:41:03 AM PDT by Claud
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