Posted on 05/14/2008 10:16:49 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg
by C. H. Spurgeon
From the January 1866 "Sword and Trowel Spurgeon"
According to promise, we have summarized the detailed account of the idolatrous worship of Mary by the Papists as exposed in full by Dr. Pusey in his new work. As his statements are not made at random, but are supported by quotations from Romish writers of recognised authority, they will be valuable to those who are met by the crafty denials of Romanists whenever they expose the genuine doctrines of Popish faith. Amid all the mischief which Pusey has done, it is well to note and acknowledge whatever service he may in this case render to truth. The headings of the paragraphs are ours; the quotations are given as they stand.
Blessings said to be obtained through Mary.
—"So, then, it is taught in authorized books, that 'it is morally impossible for those to be saved who neglect the devotion to the Blessed Virgin;' that 'it is the will of God that all graces should pass through her hands;' that 'no creature obtained any grace from God, save according to the dispensation of His holy Mother;' that Jesus has, in fact, said, 'no one shall be partaker of My Blood, unless through the intercession of My Mother;' that 'we can only hope to obtain perseverance through her;' that 'God granted all the pardons in the Old Testament absolutely for the reverence and love of this Blessed Virgin;' that 'our salvation is in her hand;' that 'it is impossible for any to be saved, who turns away from her, or is disregarded by her; or to be lost, who turns to her, or is regarded by her;' that 'whom the justice of God saves not, the infinite mercy of Mary saves by her intercession;' that God is 'subject to the command of Mary;' that 'God has resigned into her hands (if one might say so) His omnipotence in the sphere of grace;' that 'it is safer to seek salvation through her than directly from Jesus.'"
Mary worship held up as a cure for trouble.
—"F. Faber, in his popular books, is always bringing in the devotion to the Blessed Virgin.. He believes that the shortcomings of English Roman Catholics are owing to the inadequacy of their devotion to her. After instancing people's failures in overcoming their faults, want of devotion, unsubmission to God's special Providence for them, feeling domestic troubles almost-incompatible with salvation, and that 'for all these things prayer appears to bring so little remedy,' he asks, 'What is the remedy that is wanted? what is the remedy indicated by God himself? If we may rely on the disclosures of the saints, it is an immense increase of devotion to our Blessed Lady, but remember, nothing short of an immense one. Here, in England, Mary is not half enough preached. Devotion to her is low and thin and poor. It is frightened out of its wits by the sneers of heresy. It is always invoking human respect and carnal prudence, wishing to make Mary so little of a Mary, that Protestants may feel at ease about her. Its ignorance of theology makes it unsubstantial and unworthy. It is not the prominent characteristic of our religion which it ought to be. It has no faith in itself. Hence it is, that Jesus is not loved, that heretics are not converted, that the Church is not exalted; that souls, which might be saints, wither and dwindle; that the sacraments are not rightly frequented, or souls enthusiastically evangelized. Jesus is obscured, because Mary is kept in the background. Thousands of souls perish, because Mary is withheld from them. It is the miserable unworthy shadow which we call our devotion to the Blessed Virgin, that is the cause of all these wants and blights; these evils and omissions and declines. Yet, if we are to believe the revelations of the saints, God is pressing for a greater, wider, a stronger, quite another devotion to His Blessed Mother.'"
The Pope's whole reliance on the Virgin.
—In his Encyclical Letter of 1849, Pius IX wrote: "On this hope we chiefly rely, that the most Blessed Virgin—who raised the height of merits above all the choirs of Angels to the throne of the Deity, and by the foot of Virtue 'bruised the serpent's head,' and who, being constituted between Christ and His Church, and, being wholly sweet and full of graces, hath ever delivered the Christian people from calamities of all sorts and from the snares and assaults of all enemies and hath rescued them from destruction, and, commiserating our most sad and most sorrowful vicissitudes and our most severe straits, toils, necessities with that most large feeling of her motherly mind—will, by her most present and most powerful patronage with God, both turn away the scourges of Divine wrath wherewith we are afflicted for our sins, and will allay, dissipate the most turbulent storms of ills, wherewith, to the incredible sorrow of our mind, the Church everywhere is tossed, and will turn our sorrow into joy. For ye know very well, Ven. Brethren, that the whole of our confidence is placed in the most Holy Virgin, since God has placed in Mary the fullness of all good, that accordingly we may know that if there is any hope in us, if any grace, if any salvation, it redounds to us from her, because such is His will Who hath willed that we should have everything through Mary."
Mary blasphemously called Co-Redemptress with our Lord.
—"We had heard before, repeatedly, that she was the Mediatrix with the Redeemer; some of us, who do not read Marian books, have heard now for the first time, that she was ever our 'Co-Redemptress.' The evidence lies, not in any insulated passage of a devotional writer (which was alleged in plea for the language of M. Olier), but in formal answers from Archbishops and Bishops to the Pope as to what they desired in regard to the declaration of the Immaculate Conception as an Article of Faith. Thus the Archbishop of Syracuse wrote, 'Since we know certainly that she, in the fulness of time, was Co-redemptress of the human race, together with her Son Jesus Christ our Lord.' From North Italy the Bishop of Asti wrote of 'the dogma of the singular privilege granted by the Divine Redeemer to His pure mother, the Co-redemptress of the world.' In South Italy the Bishop of Gallipoli wrote, 'the human race, whom the Son of God, from her, redeemed; whom, together with Him, she herself co-redeemed.' The Bishop of Cariati prayed the Pope to 'command all the sons of Holy Mother Church and thy own, that no one of them should dare at any time hereafter to suspect as to the Immaculate Conception of their Co-redeemer.' From Sardinia, the Bishop of Alghero wrote, 'It is the common consent of all the faithful, and the common wish and desire of all, that our so beneficent Parent and Co-redeemer should be presented by the Apostolic See with the honour of this most illustrious mystery.' Spain, the Bishop of Almeria justified the attribute by appeal to the service of the Conception. The Church, adapting to the Mother of God in the Office of the Conception that text, 'Let Us make a help like unto Him,' assures us of it. and confirms those most ancient traditions, 'Companion of the Redeemer,' 'Co-Redemptress,' 'Authoress of everlasting salvation.' The Bishops refer to. these as ancient, well-known, traditionary titles, at least in their Churches in North and South Italy, Sicily, Sardinia, Spain."
A Parallel infamously drawn between Jesus and Mary.
—"As our Redemption gained its sufficiency and might from Jesus, so, they say, did it gain its beauty and loveliness from the aid of Mary. As we are clothed with the merits of Christ, so also, they say, with the merits of Mary. As Jesus rose again the third day without seeing corruption, so they speak of her Resurrection so as to anticipate corruption, in some three days;' as He was the first-fruits of them that slept, so is she; as He was taken up into heaven in the body so, they say, was she; as He sits at the Right Hand of God, so she at His Right Hand; as He is there our perpetual Intercessor with the Father, so she with Him; as 'no man cometh to the Father.' Jesus saith, 'but by Me;' so 'no man cometh to Jesus', they say, 'but by her;' as He is our High Priest, so she, they say, a Priestess; He, our High Priest, gave us the sacrament of His Body and Blood; so, they say, did she, 'her will conspiring with the will of her Son to the making of the Eucharist, and assenting to her Son so giving and offering Himself for food and drink, since we confess that the sacrifice and gifts, given, to us under the form of bread and wine, are truly hers and appertain unto her. As in the Eucharist He is present and we receive Him, so she, they say, is present an received in that same sacrament. The priest is 'minister of Christ,' and 'minister of Mary.' They seem to assign to her an office, like that of God the Holy Ghost, in dwelling in the soul. They speak of 'souls born not of blood, nor of flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God and Mary;' that 'the Holy Ghost chose to make use of our Blessed Lady to bring His fruitfulness into action by producing in her and by her Jesus Christ in His members;' that 'according to that word, 'the kingdom of God is within you,' in like manner the kingdom of our Blessed Lady is principally in the interior of a man, his soul; that 'when Mary has struck her roots in the soul, she produces there marvels of grace, which she alone can produce, because she alone is the fruitful Virgin, who never has had, and never will have, her equal in purity and fruitfulness.'"
Shameless declaration that Mary is in the Eucharist.
—(Oswald.) "'We maintain a (co-)presence of Mary in the Eucharist. This is a necessary inference from our Marian theory, and we shrink back from no consequence.' 'We are much inclined,' he says afterwards, 'to believe an essential co-presence of Mary in her whole person, with body and soul, under the sacred species. Certainly to such a presence in the Eucharist, 1. there is required a glorious mode of being of the Virgin body of the Holy Mother. We are not only justified in holding this as to Mary, but we have well-nigh proved it. 2. The assumption of a bodily presence of Mary in the Eucharist compels self-evidently the assumption of a multi-location (i.e. a contemporaneous presence in different portions of space) of Mary, according to her flesh too. 3. One who would receive this must be ready to admit a compenetration of the Body of Christ and of that of the Virgin in the same portion of space, i.e. under the sacred species.' The writer subsequently explains that 'the "lac virginale" must be looked upon as that of Mary, which is primarily present in the Eucharist, whereto, in further consequence, the whole Christ the Head, the Blessed Virgin is, as also her soul, would be joined.' 'The Blood of the Lord, and the lac of His Virgin Mother, are both present in the sacrament.'"
Mariolotry to swallow up all other devotion.
—"'Assuming that, in and under Christ the Head, the Blessed Virgin is, after her Assumption, as it were, the neck of the Church, so that all grace whatever flows to the Body through her, that is, through her prayers, it might be argued, that, for such as have this belief to ask anything of or through her, is identical in sense, but in point of form better, than to ask it directly of Christ, in like manner as to ask anything of or through Christ, is identical in sense, but clearer and fuller in point of form, than to ask it directly of the Father. And hence, it might seem that it would bean improvement, if, reserving only the use of the appointed forms for the making of the Sacraments, and an occasional use of the Lord's Prayer (and this rather from respect to the letter of their outward institution than from any inward.199 necessity or propriety), every prayer, both of individuals and of the Church, were addressed to or through Blessed Mary, a form beginning, 'Our Lady, which art in heaven,' etc., being preferred for general use to the original letter of the Lord's Prayer; and the Psalter, the Te Deum, and all the daily Offices, being used in preference with similar accommodation.'" Horrid ravings of Faber, whose writings are very popular among Papists.—"'There is some portion of the Precious Blood which once was Mary's own blood, and which remains still in our Blessed Lord, incredibly exalted by its union with His Divine Person, yet still the same. This portion of Himself, it is piously believed, has not been allowed to undergo the usual changes of human substance. At this moment, in heaven, He retains something which was once His Mother's, and which is, possibly, visible, as such, to the saints and angels. He vouchsafed at mass to show to S. Ignatius the very part of the Host which had once belonged to the substance of Mary. It may have a distinct and singular beauty in heaven, where, by His compassion, it may one day be our blessed lot to see it and adore it. But with the exception of this portion of it, the Precious Blood was a growing thing,' "&c.
Enough! enough! every one of our readers will cry out, and therefore we stay our hand. Surely "for this cause, God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
I think that a lot of folks believe that somehow the Catholic Church is all about Mary worship but are at a loss when asked what that entails and how it all works practically. You asked a fair question, I reckon.
Freegards
Gee, and I thought that all of those statements referred to the vast and damnable heresies brought forth in these latter times.
After all, let's take a look at Scripture:
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,1Ti 4:2 through the pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared,
1Ti 4:3 who forbid marriage and enjoin abstinence from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
Well, lemme see...the Shakers forbade marriage...well, they sprang up during the latter days...
And, lemme see...the modern Messianic Jew believes in keeping kosher...and that movement sprang up during the 19th Century, as well...
2Ti 3:1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of stress.2Ti 3:2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good,
2Ti 3:4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
2Ti 3:5 holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. Avoid such people.
2Ti 3:6 For among them are those who make their way into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and swayed by various impulses,
2Ti 3:7 who will listen to anybody and can never arrive at a knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of corrupt mind and counterfeit faith;
2Ti 3:9 but they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.
Well, if that isn't a description of the modern tele-evangelical movement, featuring the concept of "prosperity theology," I don't know what it would be.
2Ti 4:3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings,2Ti 4:4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths.
Again, sounds like the modern Protestant movement to me. Don't like what this church teaches, go find one that agrees with you. Don't like Southern Baptists, go find American Baptists, or Primative Baptists, or Free Will Baptists, or United Baptists. Don't like the United Presbyterians, find the Orthodox Presbyterians, or the Reformed Presbyterians, or the American Presbyterians. Don't like the Evangelical Lutherans, go find the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, the Lutheran Church Wisconsin Synod, or whatever. Don't like the Church of Christ (Anderson), find the Church of Christ (Cleveland). Or if none of that works, go found your own church and teach it your way. After all, the Holy Spirit speaks to you, and so therefore you couldn't be wrong. Nor could you (pointing at somebody else). Nor you (pointing at yet another person).
Talk about arrogant! Pull the beam out of your OWN eye, FRiend.
“. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.”
“No one is trying to be dishonest. Everyone claims to be hearing the Word of God. But the indisputable fact of the matter is that Lutherans, Presbyterians, sectarians, liberals, conservatives, East Lansingites, East Berliners, Southern Americans, Southern Africans, Indonesians and Ghanians, all read the same Scripture and ALL HEAR DIFFERENT THINGS.”
Robert McAfee Brown (Protestant Scholar)
Thank you very much, but I will listen to the teachings of Christ’s own church speaking through the Magisterium guided by the Holy Spirit since Pentecost and not the promptings of everyone else guided by who knows what.
VI. There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ. Nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalts himself, in the Church, against Christ and all that is called God.
Hmmm.
“Isn’t that odd, since most of your church’s dogmas are EXTRA biblical???”
No they aren’t. Your interpretation of what we quote in Scripture is simply your interpretation.
You say you don’t really follow this or that denomination but read for yourself.
I guess there are now 30,002, (I addded your interpretations to the count) of non-Catholic interpretations ~ahem,~ guided by some spirit, I can’t think that the Holy Spirit is that divisive.
I'd ask you to name names of Catholic scholars you've read in, but I don't want to be mean either! ;-)
Their church tells them it's not worship...
When Catholics claim "Catholics believe..." they would be required to identify the subset of Catholics included in their claim.
When non-Catholics claim "Catholics practice..." they would also be required to follow the same rules.
I have seen some posts by non-Catholics wherein the claim in all seriousness that all Catholics worship Mary without actually believing they do (the Catholics that is) because of their excessive "veneration" and (I guarantee there are few, Catholics and non-Catholics alike, who are familiar with the term) hyperdulia.
Even in this situation the statement is not logically correct because there are some Catholics who believe very little of what the RCC teaches. You would require a legalistic disclaimer in this situation also. No?
In short, we are in agreement (somewhat). However, don't hold your breath.
In the meanwhile I'll hold to the Jesuitical "mental reservation". There. That should cover it. :)
Howdy Iscool.
I wrote:
“I was thinking that of all places, an anonymous internet site would be one of the places were the Catholics who admit to their Mary worship would loudly proclaim such worship.”
As a response to a Freeper who said some Catholics admit to their Mary worship, but these Catholics aren’t on FR.
Do you think all Catholics worship Mary? Do the Catholics who worship Mary know they worship Mary? Why do Catholics who proclaim their worship of Mary get kicked out of the Catholic Church?
Freegards
Those few "experts" in Catholic teaching are not worshipping Mary by their owned specialized understanding of the term.
Whether I believe their excessive "veneration" crosses the line is unimportant. They are not worshipping Mary. Just ask them.
If you are sincerely interested in the subject there are literally thousands of sites on the internet. Exercise your imagination and have at it.
When non-Catholics claim "Catholics practice..." they would also be required to follow the same rules.
For me, I usually say "the Church teaches..." for the very reason that you mention. (Yes, sometimes I slip, but that is my intent)
Goodbye. We have nothing further to discuss on this thread.
I do admit when a particularly strident Catholic bellows "CATHOLICS BELIEVE" .................... I am apt to follow with CATHOLICS PRACTICE.............. followed with the practices of some Catholics.
Sadly, my "lesson" is usually misunderstood.
HaHaHAH!! You fell into my cunning trap again!! Oh, will you ever learn, OLD REGGIE?! :)
Freegards
Not all churches are spirit filled. Many are not.
P.S. CHURCHES aren’t spirit filled. People IN them are. He fills those who want it.It’s not automatic.
Most protestant churches.
“P.S. CHURCHES aren’t spirit filled. People IN them are. He fills those who want it.It’s not automatic.”
So then there are false chruches, right?
Sure.
Really? A "great many?" I've seen FR Catholics make this claim, but I've never seen any evidence for this spurious charge. I can't even imagine what that would look like. Protestants do not kneel to the Bible. Protestants do not pray to the Bible. Protestants do not believe the Bible is a mediator between God and men. Protestants do not believe the Bible morphs from paper into God Himself because "another Christ" says some words over it. OTOH, Protestants believe the Bible is the inspired word of God (and last time I checked, the RCC catechism says the same thing.)
Amen.
I guess because we hold the Bible and not an organization or man, as our final authority, they consider that 'worship'.
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