Posted on 05/14/2008 10:16:49 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg
LOLOL. Just to make your job even more interesting. 8~)
I think in the Rubber Duck religion, the Lord's Supper is composed of quackers.
I must admit, I haven’t responded to the OP directly in this thread, but this is largely because it isn’t very convenient to check the original sources of contention that are raised in the OP.
For example, the quote you cited, it is allegedly from Catholic sources, but even the website the OP refers to don’t have any citations for independent verification and examination.
Now I’m not saying the quotes themselves are inaccurate. However, what one must do, if one claims to be reasonable, is examine the quotes in context, to see if the isolated quotes are indeed as bold and separate as the author (Dr. Pusey) claims. I fully admit it is possible to examine Dr. Pusey’s original written work, and also, that I have not done so, in order to see if his original work has such citations.
If it doesn’t however, it is really just little better than anything Jack Chick could generate.
If it does, then it would be profitable, for a reasonable person, to examine the quotes he cites in their proper context.
I stress that latter point above, because without the context, these quotes aren’t worth much. And also, by my own personal experience, every single time I have examined quotes that are claimed to be heretical by Protestant critics, I have found that in their context, they aren’t as crafty, idolatrous, or otherwise heretical as the author would have one believe.
So, while I could check out/buy Dr. Pusey’s original work somewhere, I’m not very inclined to do so, because, by my previous experience, it will probably end up being yet another exercise of frustrating futility.
LOL!
"The reading of this book (True Devotion to Mary) was a decisive turning point in my life. I say 'turning-point' but in fact it was a long inner journey...This 'perfect devotion' is indispensable to anyone who means to give himself without reserve to Christ and to the work of redemption. It is from Montfort that I have taken my motto 'Totus tuus' ("I am all thine"). Someday I'll have to tell you Montfortians how I discovered De Montfort's Treatise on True Devotion to Mary, and how often I have to reread it to understand it."-Pope John Paul II
"I heartily recommend True Devotion to The Blessed Virgin, so admirably written by St. Louis De Montfort, and to all who read it grant the Apostolic Benediction."-Pope St. Pius X
Catholic Caucus: Ecce! self | 8 April A.D. 2002 | father_elijah (Post #15)
This is an interesting thread which shows the "special" devotion to Mary by clergy and lay persons.
If you've ever read the life of John Calvin, you'd know he was the least bitter of men.
""There is not one blade of grass, there is no color in this world that is not intended to make us rejoice." ~John Calvin.
As William Buckley said, gratitude is the proper perspective in life.
Such puns are clearly illegal.
I'm thinking a beheading at sunset is in order. All in favor say, "Aye"
Christ
You seem to be going beyond Scripture . . . Are you relying on another source?
Of course it would. But that has nothing to do with Marian devotion and bears no resemblance to the Catholic Church.
Well if you substitute Mary for Calvin it does
I don't have a denomination...I believe the Scriptures...I can line up with 'some' Presbyterians...There's a group called the Brethern who appear to me to be close enough to the truth but they put way too much emphasis on the Pauline Epistles to the exclusion of the rest of the Scriptures, in my view...
Independant Baptist churches, in general, appear to me to be as close to scripture as one can get...
I love the worship at Pentecostal services but I don't agree with some of their beliefs...However, I've been to a couple of Baptist churches that will really raise your level of excitement for the Lord...
I'm just a Bible Believing Christian...A sinner saved by Grace...
You're welcome and thanks for recognizing my effort.
I'm sure the wise guys didn't go around the countryside hunting down babies that would one day be the King of any given race, or religion...
I imagine they KNEW that the Messiah was prophesied in the OT and they knew THIS King was the one the world was waiting for...
This was no ordinary King...And they knew it...I don't think they were just showing respect and honor to a king...They were worshipping and bowing to THE King...
I think we're getting off the road to truth here, and venturing into speculation, with all due respect. I would like to say though that, for the record, after having reviewed my post #781 and the previous one on the subject of "worship of Mary", I must share some of the blame for this diversion. The example of Matt 2:1-11 is is not the best one I could have offered to demonstrate my original claim that "From Scripture we can see not all forms of worship are given to God alone".
I ping the rest of the respondents to this post, so that we may focus on the initial claim ("From Scripture we can see not all forms of worship are given to God alone") and so I may offer what is, IMO, Scriptural evidence that is incontrovertibly on point, to whit: Rev 3:9.
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Here we see direct evidence, in Scripture, and even in the NT no less, of men "worshipping" other men. As an aside, it's also the term proskyneo, the one before defined as possibly meaning "honor or respect shown to men of higher rank".
Thus, my previous posts flow from this, specifically, that when Catholics bow to (or otherwise adorn) statues of Saints, they aren't worshipping the statue, they are showing honor to the person the statue represents, as per the other, possible definition of proskyneo shown in Rev 3:9.
LOL!
From the LDS point of view today's mainstream is but a shell of the original early Church was.
From the LDS point of understanding we do not reject the OT or NT we are aware that in many situations vital knowledge is not presents nor books that the Bible makes reference to.
Unless you read the original books that are considered missing which the Bible made reference too there is no way you know for sure we have it covered in what we have.
Now you can keep telling yourselves you have it all but that is not a fact!
The Book of Mormon has shown time and time again a clearer understanding of the passages without all this ambiguity, the Book of Mormon gives a sure foundation.
When you know something is right there is a peace with in which comes from the Lord.
Joseph Smith was a Latter Day Prophet as just as the other prophets in their day they too were rejected by many and had that burden to carry while trying to do their mission even Jesus Christ also suffered that same types of people always trying to destroy his message.
All mankind have their agency and to pipe dream that the Bible is infallible when all have agency to do as they see fit, including the opposition.
Many passages in the Bible testify to the misuse of agency
You obey these self imposed rules which are not from God, therefore you continue to believe something that is not true.
The Lord gave 10 commandments in the OT and before it was over the clergy had 613 self imposed rules which did not come form God!
No one could suggest that the majority of protestants believe such a thing about Mary and not receive a whole lot of objection. There has been very little objection to any of the specific charges on this post, as I would expect, because they are a repeat of things I’ve already read and heard RCs believe.
I don't believe I've seen a single post where somone said that you believe in worshipping Mary as a deity...
What I (and others) have said is that whatever you want to call the ritual of venerating Mary, it is worship to us; we see it as worship (regardless of what you call it)...
Thanks very much for the post!
Reading other posters' minds is "making it personal."
Everything that I’ve stated has come from reading Mormon responses on FR. Do you or do you not, need Joseph Smith’s permission to enter heaven? Is he or is he not, the holder of the keys to the kingdom?
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