Posted on 05/14/2008 10:16:49 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg
Are these words from Father Manelli also a lie:
"The words "dear Coredemptrix" express most exactly soteriological value of the Blessed Virgin Mary’s maternal mission in the tones of a pure theologia cordis. She coredeemed humanity by offering the divine Victim, her Son Jesus, in the bloody immolation of the Cross, and co-immolating herself with Him in order to "restore supernatural life to souls" (LG 61), became in this way our "Mother in the order of grace" (LG 1.c.) (18). She "gave birth to us in sorrows," affirms St. Pio. She is, therefore, the Mother Coredemptrix." [Padre Pio amd Mary Coredemptrix]
Is there anything there that you disagree with???
And when children in Catholic schools crown statues of Mary as Queen of Heaven this May in festivals all over the world, what should we, they, and you call that????
Not seeing much defense of the worship of Mary.
I would call it an expression of love for our blessed Mother. No one--I say again no one--is claiming that she is equal to God, she is the Queen Mother, i.e. the mother of the King, Jesus Christ. I would not think that you would object to us loving Mary, whom our Lord loves so very much. Is it wrong that we should express publicly our love for her? Perhaps to your sensibilities it is over the top, but take it for what it is and do not give it a meaning beyond what is our intention. Criticize what to you are our excesses but to insist that we are worshipping Mary as a god or attributing to her divine attributes when you have been repeatedly told that we do not is an exaggeration of your own and a slander against what we believe.
Pointing out idolatry does not make me a hater of the idolator. Your only hope is that I will retreat because you are using those terrible words at me. Do you think John the Babtist or Jesus would care about such a tactic? No, they called a spade a spade.
His words are not (a) worship or (b) doctrinal teaching of the Catholic Church.
False accusations of idolatry are not motivated by love.
You're wrong to expect it. "Worship of Mary" is not Catholic teaching or practice.
Yeah but now I'm in big trouble because I think I used the word "you". GASP!!!
Did he say those things before or after he was made a "Saint"? By making him a "Saint" the Vatican has given official sanction to his words.
And how about you??? Do you disagree with his words????
“far no proof has been offered for the statement that any Calvinist believes in reincarnation.
In fact, a quick tally of the many Calvinists on FR shows none of them believes in reincarnation.”
Well, I’m used to sleeping at night. I can’t make a 24 hour posting schedule.
“The relationship between predestination and free will is the key to understanding life and the Bible. Ignorance of how our own past has created our present keeps us shackled to error, possessing little more that the illusion of choice, freedom, and free will. Every Christian church today teaches the tenets of reincarnation; it is preached from evangelical pulpits and is the core of Calvinism. Once understood, it is the foundation of all biblically based teachings.”
http://v.webring.com/t/The-Paradox-of-Choice-vs-Free-Will-and-TheWay
*******Calvinists believe in the Hindu belief in Karma. It’s obvious from Calvin’s words*******:
With Augustine I say: the Lord has created those whom he unquestionably foreknew would go to destruction. This has happened because he has willed. Bk 3, Ch 23, s. 5
“Again I ask: whence does it happen that Adam’s fall irremediably involved so many peoples, together with their infant offspring, in eternal death unless because it so pleased God? ... The decree is dreadful indeed, I confess. Yet no one can deny that God foreknew what end man was to have before he created him, and consequently fore knew because he so ordained by his decree.” “And it ought not to seem absurd for me to say that God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his descendants, but also meted it out in accordance with his own decision.. Bk 3, Ch 23, s. 7
“...salvation is freely offered to some while others are barred from access to it..” Bk 3, Ch 21, s. 5
“We call predestination God’s eternal decree, by which he compacted with himself what he willed to become of each man. For all are not created in equal condition; rather, eternal life is fore-ordained for some, eternal damnation for others.” Bk 3, ch 21, s. 5
“The very inequality of his grace proves that it is free.” Bk 3, ch 21, s 6
“..we say that God once established by his eternal and unchangeable plan those whom he long before determined once for all to receive into salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, he would devote to destruction. ...he has barred the door of life to those whom he has given over to damnation.” Bk 3, Ch 21, s. 7
Then there is this exposition from a class at Florida State:
http://www.fsu.edu/~crimdo/demon.html
2. “Divine providence (predestination): We are born good or evil (bad seed). Criminals are part of all communities, as saints and sinners are forced to live together. Ultimately it is all part of God’s plan, established before the first human ever appeared on earth. If this sounds like Calvinism, as we discussed the first night of class, you’re right. A Calvinistic God is all powerful, all knowing, and ultimately inscrutable.
The idea of divine providence leads to many questions. Is God the author of evil as well as good? Why would God choose certain persons for divine bliss while others are destined for eternal damnation? Is there nothing human beings can do about their fate? However, Calvin forbade even asking these questions. Questioning God is the ultimate blasphemy.
What would the followers of Calvin do? Would they follow Calvin’s admonition not to question providence? Of course not! Max Weber has described the results of the quest to know one’s fate in one of the most famous history texts ever written The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism. Calvin’s followers quickly realized that to live in a world in which one’s life decisions had no impact on one’s ultimate outcome was to live in an absurd world. One could lie, cheat, and steal and still end up in heaven. On the other hand, God might reject even a virtuous person because they were not “chosen.” Calvinists believed that God was not a trickster (unlike Woody Allen’s view of God in Love and Death), and would not fool believers into thinking they were saved. The sign of God’s election chosen by Calvinists was success in a worldly occupation. The idea of “work as a calling” was borrowed from Martin Luther, who exhorted believers not to leave their current jobs for religious occupations (becoming a priest or nun). The inadvertent result of the Calvinist creation of the Protestant work ethic was the establishment of capitalism. With renewed devotion to work, the self-fulfilling prophecy was success in business.
One unfortunate consequence of the Protestant ethic was a flip-flop in Western attitudes toward the poor.”
It is Karma again. It’s in the tenets.
Here it is in Sola Scriptura:
“In My House are many mansions”
“The episode in the Bible where Jesus identified John the Baptist as the reincarnation of Elijah the prophet is one of the clearest statements which Jesus made concerning reincarnation.
For all the prophets and the law have prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come. (Matt. 11:13-14)
In the above passage, Jesus clearly identifies John the Baptist as the reincarnation of Elijah the prophet. Later in Matthew’s gospel Jesus reiterates it.
And the disciples asked him, saying, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”
But he answered them and said, “Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand.”
Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist.” (Matt. 17:10-13)
“After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them. His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus ...
As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus gave them orders not to tell anyone what they had seen until the Son of Man had risen from the dead.
They kept the matter to themselves, discussing what “rising from the dead” meant.
And they asked him, “Why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”
Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things.”
“Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?”
“But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him.” (Mark 9:9-13)”
Quite literal, isn’t it?
Besides, I know people who do yoga at the psychic research center here. One of my friend is an instructor there. She knows women in her class are Calvinists. They repeat the Hindu blessings during postures.
“In fact, a quick tally of the many Calvinists on FR shows none of them believes in reincarnation.
So we can only surmise this untrue remark was said for some other, unknown purpose.”
I certainly didn’t say YOU believed in reincarnation and karma although Calvin fits perfectly, but I’m sure that many Calvinists have a Karmic attitude. It’s all very Hindu.
Bzzzt. Wrong.
That's ridiculous.
But true ones are which is why Jesus pointed out error.
You could say that if it weren't so well documented in this article and a thousand other ones. Read DeMontforte. Few Christians express the worship of God with the eloquence that he worships Mary.
Poor Jean Cauvin....confusing himself with God again.
Those questions are not "questioning God," but rather "questioning the autocratic Jean Cauvin."
YOU are not Jesus.
Read what He says about being like Him.
THIS article is not well-documented, let alone the apocryphal "thousand other ones."
Read DeMontforte. Few Christians express the worship of God with the eloquence that he worships Mary.
Even if I assume everything you say about him is true, DeMontforte does not define Catholic teaching or practice.
He does not call any of us to make false charges against His Church.
He is just one of many that worship Mary in his own way. He also has popes make pilgrmages to his grave which is a pretty strong statement of acceptance of his views.
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