DR. PUSEY ON THE WORSHIP OF MARY IN THE CHURCH OF ROME

Sword and the Trowel ^ | 1866 | Charles Spurgeon

[Bosco]

It's a question of authority.

Always has been, always will be.

I believe that God's Word has final authority, (so does He), and I seek out others that do also. The result is the church where I regularly worship. If that were to change I would seek elsewhere to worship.

A couple of observations that loosely tie in to the topic at hand, with Marian Dogmas as an illustration.

1) What would be regarded as a non-essential doctrine in a non-denominational Christian/Protestant church is regarded as essential doctrine in the Roman Catholic Church.

Ex: Where I regularly worship, one could believe that Mary was bodily assumed into heaven at or after her death and enjoy full fellowship with us. It's not essential for salvation.

2) Roman Catholics confuse conditional and positional truths as found in the Scriptures.

Ex: The need for continual propitiatory sacrifice (they will state that it's the same sacrifice perpetuated through time) through the mass, although in numerous passages of Scripture it states that positionally before God we, as Christians, are justified. That's because no more sacrifices for sin need to be made - Jesus or otherwise by anyone. Jesus is done with the sacrifice work. It started and was consummated on Calvary. It's done, but the application continues to this day.

That leaves us with conditional sin, and I'll leave that for another time because I have other items to deal with tonight.

[OLD REGGIE]

Speeding is illegal in Boston.

We have OFFICIAL documents which make it clear.

There are no speeders in Boston.

Case closed.

[Petronski]

...they will state that it's the same sacrifice perpetuated through time...

Of course we will say so, for it IS so.

[mockingbyrd]

It’s madame....very much madame. So much so, that my five month old son is of the opinion that if I have time to sit at the computer, I have time to feed him. As a result, I don’t post much anymore....just read. Which is better all the way around.

[Paridel]

Actually, that quote is from L'Osservatore Romano. A full citation is as follows: Inseg VIII/1 (1985) 318-319 [ORE 876:7]

(ORE => L'Osservatore Romano, weekly edition in English. First number = cumulative edition number; second number = page)

As for the citations only being from hate sites, from what I can tell Vox Populi is far from a hate site -- check out their FAQ for the quote. I found this quote on many Catholic sites.

-paridel

[MarkBsnr]

***Speeding is illegal in Boston.

We have OFFICIAL documents which make it clear.

There are no speeders in Boston.

Case closed.***

I wouldn’t want you for a lawyer. Illegal does not equal impossible. A good try though.

How is everything by you?

[OLD REGGIE]

We need fear nothing, for the Lord has given us strength. The Visigoths burned Rome; the Scriptural Visigoths have emasculated the Bible. No matter. We must bring the Good News to the heathen, the heretic and the apostate.

Barf!

[MarkBsnr]

***It’s madame....very much madame. So much so, that my five month old son is of the opinion that if I have time to sit at the computer, I have time to feed him.***

As the father of six, my observation is that the mother has certain advantages in feeding that the father does not.

And since they are normally off limits, it is with certain jealousy that I observe their utility.

[Bosco]

Then I accurately represented your belief as to what the sacrifice of the mass is, which was my intent.

What did you think of my observation about positional and conditional truths as found in Scripture as they relate to a Roman Catholic?

[MarkBsnr]

***Barf!***

Ah, a striking and very illustrative example of your theological position, no doubt. The only question is whether the barfing occurred before or after the realization of the extent of the Vandalization.

[Petronski]

I would be happy to discuss it if you explain it to me at a more elementary level.

;O)

[Religion Moderator]

For something to be "settled" it must be established by law. Since this is not a matter of law, as long as posters disagree whether or not Mary is being worshipped, it is not "settled" and the question remains a valid issue for an "open" Religion Forum thread.

As some poster around here once said, paraphrased, truth is something man seeks, it is not his final possession, only God knows truth.

[Petronski]

Since this is not a matter of law, as long as posters disagree whether or not Mary is being worshipped, it is not "settled" and the question remains a valid issue for an "open" Religion Forum thread.

If I assume arguendo that "whether Catholics worship Mary" is not settled, it still must be granted that a claim that a specifically-identified Catholic worships Mary IS a settled issue, based on the word of that particular Catholic. The alternative would be mind-reading and (mis)attribution of motive.

[OLD REGGIE]

We have OFFICIAL documents which make it clear the RCC does not teach the Worship of Mary.

No Catholics worship Mary.

Case closed.

I'm fine. And you?

[OLD REGGIE]

Ah, a striking and very illustrative example of your theological position, no doubt. The only question is whether the barfing occurred before or after the realization of the extent of the Vandalization.

No. I couldn't digest the pap.

[narses]

For something to be "settled" it must be established by law.

+I quoted Church Law. The question of what the Church teaches is SETTLED law. Q.E.D.

[Religion Moderator]

If the “specifically-identified Catholic” is a Freeper then it would be reading his/her mind and therefore, “making it personal.”

[tiki]

But, but they didn’t SAY Jack Chick, they just used his words and his methods without attribution.

[Petronski]

Okay, yes, that’s what I meant, a poster here.

We have achieved a meeting of the minds. I hope I didn’t bump your head.

[Religion Moderator]

The law of the Catholic Church is not binding outside the Catholic Church therefore, it is not “settled.”