Posted on 05/14/2008 10:16:49 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg
I’m answereing as honestly as I can. I cannot accept the mass as legitimate worship, so whether Mary is prominent or not, still does not validate it. So let’s move on.
I wholesale disagree with such assertions and descriptions.
I find lots of love on both sides in such threads.
Perhaps . . .
in the eye of the beholder
and
we see others as we are
plays a bigger role than some think.
Good points.
Not, to me.
I think the core of The Trinity is clear enough in the N.T.
of course it takes lots of persistent submision to Holy Spirit’s guidance to walk the best Christian walk.
Prottys can say similar things about our umpteen years of thoughtful posts laid out and ignored by RC’s.
YES AND AMEN.
AND LORD, PLEASE CAUSE JimRob’s healing to be quick, wholesale and maximally comfortable, in Jesus’ Name.
AND PRAISE GOD, MY DAD’S cataract eye surgery went well.
He’s sleeping past time for eye drops but that’s probably to the good.
Thanks tons for all your prayers.
Romans 6:9
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Every Apostle knew of and understood the Trinity...The fact that your church wouldn’t admit it or couldn’t figure it out for 400 years shows that your church rejected the Scriptures from the beginning...
Amen Quix, prayers for Jim Robinson
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
the brazenly inaccurate graphic appears predictably.
It does seem to be a compulsive refles of a certain minority subgroup of a subgroup hereon.
I’m sorry, and for your dad as well. (doing 17 things at once)
THANKS:
That's really the point that gets lost on threads like this. While people are busy scrambling around trying to find examples of people who claim the name "Catholic" demonstrating some off the wall behavior, the issue of whether or not the veneration of Mary really *is* worship is lost and/or ignored.
The issue everyone should be focusing on is whether or not any form of physical display is worship in the same sense of worshipping God. Many on this thread have claimed that "Catholics engage in worship of Mary, and thus this is unbiblical".
This is actually, demonstratively false, even if one agrees that "Catholics worship Mary". Even if one finds a relatively obscure (Catholic) source that directly states (or exhorts) Catholics worship Mary, this still doesn't necessarily violate Scripture. Why? Because the very usage of the word "worship" (proskyneō) in Scripture itself does not always mean the honor and respect shown to God. (cf. Matt 2:2, 8, 11 In these verses we see the Magi desiring "to worship" the King of the Jews; it's highly unlikely they thought the King of the Jews was God. Similarly for King Herod, who, in verse 8, desired to "worship him too". Thus, simply bowing down to a man, in Scripture itself does not always necessarily mean worshipping that man like one would worship God.)
As I pointed out before on other threads (and of course it did no good, after all, why let a solid fact get in the way of a good bash fest?), using the very definition of what is translated as worship, shown here ,one can clearly see the word proskyneō can also simply mean showing respect to men of higher rank.
Thus, even if one bows to a statue, or adorns it, or does anything else to it or in front of it, even the most radical (or backward, if one wishes to be so harsh in judgement) Latin American if asked, would not claim to be worshipping the statue itself rather showing respect to what, or really who, the statue represents. And this, as shown above, is NOT the same kind of "worship" shown to God alone.
All of these points of course perfectly dovetail into the Catholic apologetic that is also always offered (and also always ignored) regarding the distinction of different forms of worship, i.e., latria, hyperdulia, and dulia.
All that above has, of course, been pointed out on numerous occasions, but it matters not to those who are convinced what Catholics believe vis a vis Mary and the Saints is idolatry. After all, clearly, they know Greek better than Strong and Thayer, and indeed, they know what Catholics believe better than Catholics themselves! / sarc
I think I might start a running tally of how many times I post this exact point, and of course it goes unaddressed, as such a tally will eventually be illustrative of the larger issue of Protestant obstinacy on the subject. I'll reset my count to make this the first. Let's see how many times I'll post it in the future.
And also with you.
I understand the concepts of
—evolution of thought
—refinements of thought.
I think it’s
A GROSS DOUBLE STANDARD CASE OF OUTRAGEOUS DOUBLE-SPEAK
to out of one side of the mouth of the RC edifice statues
to speak of a
HOMOGENEOUS BODY OF !!!!TRADITION!!!! and magicsterically approved, vetted, sanctioned, perfected TRUTH
PRETENDINGLY POSTULATED from Pentecost on UNCHANGINGLY
and out of the other side of the RC edifice’s statues
to speak of
the evolution, refinement over the centuries [actually since 400AD] of theological thought and understanding.
SPEAKING CONTRARY THINGS OUT OF OPPOSITE SIDES OF ONE’S THEOLOGICAL MOUTH . . . AS AN INDIVIDUAL OR A DENOMINATION OR A CONGREGATION OR A RELIGIOUS CLUB
is not very admirable nor remotely related to establishment and promulgation of
solid Biblical
TRUTH.
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