You got that right.
Posted on 05/14/2008 10:16:49 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg
Ahhh Yesss...Like asking Charlie Manson if he was responible for anyone's death...
You got that right.
If you were to ask me, a Catholic, if I worshipped Mary I would respond: no. Are you implying that I am lying or do you claim that you know what I believe and how I worship better than I do myself?
All right, I have read the liturgy. I saw one reference to Mary asking her to pray for you. That would not be my major concern with the ritual.
Sorry to butt in but:
One God, Three Persons. An ‘aspect’ is not a separate subject but only a different perspective on a single subject. That both makes God subject to limitation and reduces Him to Monophysitism.
Only by asserting that the Three are distinguishable as separate identities within the Godhead can we even begin to maintain both monotheism and the Godhead of Christ.
In Deo Vindice.
If doctrine can’t be defended, call people bigots and haters. Works every time.
If the mass is the pinnacle of your worship I fail to see where exactly the worship is
The "Christ" being worshipped is not the Christ of the bible, the one in the book of Hebrews, chapter 7 and 9,
“For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; who does not need daily like those high priests to offer up sacrifices, first for his own sins and then for the sins of the people. Because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.
For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak but the word of the oath which came after the Law appoints a Son made perfect forever.”
The operative word is “once,” one sacrifice. There is no need for daily offering of sacrifices. If you will look at the ninth chapter of Hebrews you will see this same truth repeated in verse 11.
“When Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say not of this creation, and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained...past tense...eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”
Again the operative word is “once.”
So you see, I understand you to be involved in a ritual that I can't accept as legitimate to begin with, and yet you tell me it is your highest form of worship and want me to somehow legitimize it by admitting Mary isn't involved.
In fact, what does follow from the mass, in my opinion is that this mass Christ is a broken weakling, subordinate to mankind, in the form of Catholic priests.
I've come to the conclusion that the debate is not whether you guys worship things other than God, but the debate should be about what you define as worship...
In some of our eyes, you guys worship Mary...From a biblical perspective, it appears you guys worship Mary...
Where is YOUR line??? When does veneration become worship???
“IN TERMS OF THE ATTITUDES AND BEHAVIORS OF MILLIONS OF RC’S
the Dogma
is already deeply entrenched.
The magisterical is merely slow to catch up.”
It didn’t spring fully developed, Quix.
“Here we shall consider, although not exclusively, Augustine’s De Trinitate, which he began in 399 and handed over to the public in 419.(1) He was not the first Christian in the West to write about the Trinity and the Holy Spirit. He knew the writings of Tertullian and had read the treatise on the Trinity by Hilary of Poitiers (+366), which he quotes. There can also be no doubt that he knew Marius Victorinus, who was greater influenced by Plotinus (see Volume 1, p. 77). He had heard Ambrose of Milan and had probably read his De Spiritu Sancto (c. 381), which was in many places inspired by Basil the Great and literally by Didymus the Blind and which transfers into Latin thought an exegesis of several passages in the Bible originally made by the Greek Fathers.
As far as the latter are concerned, Augustine knew or may have known, in translation, Origen’s De principiis and Didymus’ De Spiritu Sancto and the references that he makes to their vocabulary show that he must have had access to the writings of Basil the Great and, at a relatively late period, to those of Gregory Nazianzen, although it is impossible to say exactly to what extent. SNIP>
These are all doctors of the early church. They are not some primitive enclave but great thinkers in the West and East.
It took time for people to understand God. It took men with God given abilities to unravel deep truths.
They comprise the Catholic Church. Dogma takes centuries to understand. We don’t understand everything after 2000 years.
Mine: “There is only bigotry, hatred, and ignorance.”
Yours: “I don't hate Mary or Diana worshipers. I find them very intresting. I find that Wiccans have far less reverence and all other words that mean worship for the Goddess than Marian RCs have for Mary”
But you have already proven my point.
“Yours: “I don’t hate Mary or Diana worshipers. I find them very intresting. I find that Wiccans have far less reverence and all other words that mean worship for the Goddess than Marian RCs have for Mary””
This again? This blood libel? Equating the Mother of God with temple prostitution and infant immolation?
Reparation time.
MUCH APPRECIATE
your wisdom and insight on such things.
What a minefield we lay and play in! LOL. Sigh.
Paron me. I neglected to ping the other in my shock.
See above.
The doctrine of the Trinity vs various descriptions of it are likely quite different things.
The New Testament mentions
THE FATHER
THE SON
HOLY SPIRIT
That settles it for me. That’s rather . . . EARLY in the history of Christianity.
1900+ years of idolatry is not something to be proud of.
= = =
INDEED.
Dr. Pussy and all his kind are the servants of the devil — no ifs, ands or buts. And they will fry in hell. They take on Mary because she is representative of all the good in the world and good is the destruction of these people.
How did they determine what the nature of Christ is?
How did they defend against Arianism and Nestorianism?
How did the filioque arise?
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