DR. PUSEY ON THE WORSHIP OF MARY IN THE CHURCH OF ROME

Sword and the Trowel ^ | 1866 | Charles Spurgeon

[irishtenor]

Not true. However, we do not raise her higher than she is, a sinner saved by grace.

[DannyTN]

"I don’t think that ANYTHING which detracts from; hinders; subtracts from; interlopes on ANY ASPECT OF my RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD or GOD’S ROLE IN MY LIFE to be harmless."

I agree and it's a good point. But you know what?? Practically anything and everything in life can be allowed to hinder your relationship with God. NOTHING is harmless when viewed that way.

Did you throw out your intellect, or your pastors or group affiliations when you realized that you were putting them ahead of God? Probably not. Hopefully you put them into the correct perspective.

And so it is with Mary. We cannot say that Jesus being born of a virgin was a mistake. For God approved of it. We cannot say that recognizing Mary's contribution is a mistake, for Gabriel announced that Mary would be honored. To be sure, that honor must be kept in the proper perspective. Likewise, our discernment and judging the motives and beliefs our our brothers, must be in the proper perspective as well.

It may be that our Catholic brothers go to far in honoring Mary. It's also possible that we don't honor her enough, because God did say that she would be honored.

[NucSubs]

Then you won’t mind if I disregard the rest of your commentary as you clearly did not read the link YOU posted...

or noticed the complaints to the mod about the fact that the caucus was being violated.

or the removed posts.

or the comments from Protestants that “hey! you guys do this on our threads too! Wahh!

“As anyone can see” it was not a caucus thread. It started out that way and was quickly invaded.

Holy cow, your really fixated aren’t you?

[NucSubs]

That was an excellent reference to the profession of faith, which is a version of the apostle’s creed.

I wonder if posting that might be a good experience for some of our Protestant brethren.

I recite it at mass and the apostles creed at service at our Methodist church (we are “Christian” first and alternate each week in my home).

[irishtenor]

***I’m here to take a strong stand against a perversion of my beliefs. ***

And I mine.

I agree in a vigorous discussion, both demonstrating their views, without CALLING OTHERS NAME. As long as we agree on that, I’m fine.

[netmilsmom]

>>It may be that our Catholic brothers go to far in honoring Mary. It’s also possible that we don’t honor her enough, because God did say that she would be honored.<<

I am admiring you more and more! How wonderful you are.

[DungeonMaster]

Catholicism does not teach “Mary worship” and I do not defend it.

Every or nearly every statement in this article is a true position of the RCC. That position is a position of worship of Mary. Only Clintonesque type definition stretching would attempt to call such doctrines and songs and statues anything but worship. Such defense usually starts with "We don't worship Mary we revere and honor her...."

[Religion Moderator]

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[NucSubs]

Yeah. And I can find estimates that say Stalin only killed 1 million people and millions of Indians were killed in the total combo of Indian wars.

But most sober, studied estimates yield different numbers, and such is the case with the inquisition.

[Iscool]

I have an OT question. Are there any patio tomatoes that can be planted in the shade?

You can plant any and all tomatoes in the shade...

[Paridel]

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't going to post to If you think posting that clear historical fact is malice or hatred

Not at all! In no way to I attribute you post to malice of hatred. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

I was not going to post to this thread because I think the post will serve no purpose other than a cheap jab at Catholic teachings. I believe there is a legitimate need to ask questions about Marian doctrines -- even from a Catholic perspective a protestant asking 'should we put more emphasis on Mary?' is a good thing. However, how it has been addressed in this thread is not going to foster a healthy argument.

However, posting historical facts about the KKK will not change the minds of people attacking the Catholic church. A 'well yeah your a bigot! argument' isn't going to convince anyone.

As for your post 137:

MO it comes from a long-standing and bigoted tradition of a fear of Catholic doctrine, sacraments, forms of prayer and worship, and allegiance to the Pope which began at the reformation and continues to this day.

The KKK history is a stepping-stone on that 500-year path.

I hope you don't mean to imply that the history of the protestant Church is full of hatred and bigotry?

Because, this is not the case. For one thing, the idea that all non-Catholic denominations are forged or defined by their anti-Catholic stance is absurd.

-paridel

[Paridel]

Opps! I got a little to ambition with my editing. Please ignore the erroneous ‘Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough. I wasn’t going to post to’ at the beginning of my post.

[IrishCatholic]

There is no love in these threads.

There is no love in the intent of these threads.

There is no truth in these threads because when the lies are corrected they are ignored or reposted on new threads.

There is only bigotry, hatred, and ignorance.

In this case it is about religion. But it could just as easily be about race, sex, or national origin. The mentality is the same.

[1000 silverlings]

One thing for sure, it is Catholics who seem to be making all the claims of hatred and bigotry on these threads. Being a bible believer apparently means I must have some connection to southerners in the KKK or German nazis, though how thse two are connected is beyond me.

We are looking for theological truth on threads, not looking to demean people personally. Instead of replying in the negative, try giving us some biblical or philosophical, or theological reason to believe that Mary stands between us and Jesus. Here I will go first:

Ephesians 2:13

But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby :

2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

[xzins]

No. Paul Revere really was descended from Huegenots. I didn’t get that off of wiki.

And estimates of the dead related to the St Barth’s massacre are high by many sources. Wiki was just the easiest to find on the spur of the moment.

[OpusatFR]

Quix, that isn’t an answer. How did the doctrine of the Trinity develop?

Do you think the Apostles had a full understanding of the Holy Spirit, or that they fully understood the nature of Christ?

Were heresies like Nestorianism just another understanding?

We see through the mirror darkly. It takes much God guided thought under the auspices of the Holy Spirit to know.

[NucSubs]

Understood, but did he not make it personal by libeling me? Claiming I never read his link and was making up my comments whole cloth? Calling me a liar in essence?

I thought I was being calm and charitable on this issue. I’m not the one ranting about idolatry.