DR. PUSEY ON THE WORSHIP OF MARY IN THE CHURCH OF ROME

Sword and the Trowel ^ | 1866 | Charles Spurgeon

[xJones]

I am not wearing my asbestos pants today, so I mostly wanted to stay out of the fray. But surely the question of if Marian doctrine in the Catholic Church is worship (which I do not believe it is) or if some Catholics overemphasize Mary (which I believe they do, esp. some of the small New Mexico missions which I have been to) can be posed and addressed without malice or hatred?

You shouldn't need your asbestos Fruit of the Loom for this thread, because your point is very rational and well spoken. The problem on the Internet is always the cyber cowboys that know that they will never have to face their opponents. Ergo, if it's your nature to hide while throwing cow pies, you can do so until the Religion Moderator has had enough.

The FR Religion Forum is the only forum that enjoys the distinction of having it's own personal moderator because of all the fights that go on between Christians.

[Quix]

A personal opinion not supported by Scripture

= = =

Hogwash.

Just an “incidental” part of Scripture . . . Scriptural truth.

Unmangled by RC Rubber ‘Bibles.’

[Petronski]

[Quix]

Actually,

IN TERMS OF THE ATTITUDES AND BEHAVIORS OF MILLIONS OF RC’S

the Dogma

is already deeply entrenched.

The magisterical is merely slow to catch up.

[Quix]

My Oh My!!! Co-redemptrix and now Co-presence in the Eucharist???? It’s getting a little crowded in there, isn’t it???

= = =

My thought as well.

The subatomic particles must take a number or turns as to which they represent under which conditions—observed/not observed.

[Petronski]

If you are going to post a truncated portion of another poster's words, you should use an ellipsis.

Here is his actual post, and I think I understand why you cut off what you did (the part I made bold).

A personal opinion not supported by Scripture or people like Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, et al.

[xJones]

I asked basically the same thing and got a smarmy answer back.

Don't let it bother you, because we're all Christians here. You can tell by our fruits.

[netmilsmom]

>>Don’t let it bother you, because we’re all Christians here. You can tell by our fruits. <<

You’re amazing!!!! Thanks!

[DungeonMaster]

And now we know that judgment is dungeonmasters and not God's.

I notice no attempt to defend Marianism. Instead you make a defensive statement that might just as well have been made by a Wiccan who just happens to know a couple of bible verses.

[Petrosius]

NEITHER CAN ANY RC declare accurately, emphatically, that NO RC worships Mary.

Neither can you declare that no Protestant commit adultery but that does not make adultery a part of the Protestant faith. If any Catholic should actually worship Mary (something that I find hard to believe) then criticize him for being a bad Catholic; do not attribute his serious sin against the Catholic faith to the faith itself. That would just be intellectually dishonest.

VENERATION, ADORATION [and other pseudonyms for worship]

If you think that these are just pseudonyms for worship then you understand less than you think you do. There is a clear line that separates them and it would be a grave sin for any Catholic to cross it.

What arrogance . . . RC’s would have us believe that THEIR CONGREGATIONS AMONGST ALL THE RELIGIOUS GROUPS ON THE PLANET ARE NOT IDOLATROUS!

I guess it is humility to posit that the congregation of one known as Qwix is the only one that is not idolatrous.

[DungeonMaster]

You must mean no new attempt, no immediate attempt.

If you posted a defense of Mary worship to me, I missed it.

[ChurtleDawg]

excellent post. Almost all of the excessive Marian zealotry is done by individual Catholics on their own initiative. The fact that it gets lip service at high levels does not mean it is any more official than when Pat Robertson makes statements on the 700 club for Protestants. It is not in any way binding dogma. Mostly it is giving increasingly meaningless titles to Mary. Theotokos and Blessed Virgin have always sufficed for me.

Most of the actual stuff taught in the Church is just misunderstood by Protestants. The Immaculate Conception, for example. It just means that Mary was given special grace by Almighty God in light of what he planned for her and the world.

[Petronski]

Ah, now you’ve changed your terms.

I post no defense of “Mary worship” to you or anyone.

Catholicism does not teach “Mary worship” and I do not defend it.

There have been many defenses of Mariology on this forum over the years....about eleventy jillion such defenses (at least one for every false attack).

[Paridel]

The FR Religion Forum is the only forum that enjoys the distinction of having it's own personal moderator because of all the fights that go on between Christians.

I was talking to an atheist friend yesterday, and this infighting was one of the reasons he is strongly anti-religion. Which is sad because I have attended services of many denominations, Baptist, Catholic, Methodist... etc.

In all but a few crazy first congregational churches that watered down the gospel to the point of insolvency (more than a few members confided in me that the do not believe in God -- however they belong because they felt the need for 'fellowship') I found a strong love for God and core beliefs that are almost entirely compatible.

It is important to not throw away our doctrinal differences for false ecumenism or watered down Christianity -- but as long as we agree on the core doctrines I think discussion on the finer details is beneficial, and we should recognize that we are still members of the body of Christ and can work together towards common goals (e.g., preserving the sanctify of human life, feeding the poor, fighting moral degradation in today's culture)

The problem on the Internet is always the cyber cowboys that know that they will never have to face their opponents.

At least in the religious forum, and as most of my fellow posters are professing Christians of some variety, my hope is do have to face them someday!

-paridel

[ChurtleDawg]

You ared correct. The Orthodox Church can rightly claim Apostolic lineage as well.

[Tennessee Nana]

Thanks for thr PING

[irishtenor]

Jumping to conclusions is sometimes the only exercise I get.