DU: “A Tithing was not a commandment in the church until after the Government took all the property of the church and made us buy it back. (which is unconstitutional).”
DU, you NEVER give the full story. The Tithing REVELATION came to Smith (well before any expropriations) because he was denied a salary at Far West. The reason Smith needed that salary was because he’d been run out of Kirtland for bank fraud and was being forced to pay fines. Smith had needed the Kirtland money because he’d run his earlier merchant store into the ground, defrauding those who had leant him that merchandise on credit. Kirtland was his scam after he couldn’t find any buried treasure in the walls of some widows house.
So, Smith just moved from one grifter scheme to another. It all started with his digging for buried pirate treasure on a farm, that’s how he met Emma. But he’d been in to tricking people with his peepstone act for a long time before then.
Regarding tithing, I quote from Ebeneezer Robinson, who also quotes from Smith’s Journal:
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JOSEPH SMITH: Saturday, May 12, 1838, President Rigdon and myself attended the High Council for the purpose of presenting for their consideration some business relating to our pecuniary concerns.
We stated to the Council our situation, as to maintaining our families, and the relation we now stand in to the Church, spending as we have for eight years, our time, talents, and property, in the service of the Church: and being reduced as it were to beggary, and being still retained in the business and service of the Church, it appears necessary that something should be done for the support of our families by the Church, or else we must do it by our own labors; and if the Church say to us, “help yourselves,” we will thank them and immediately do so; but if the Church say, “Serve us,” some provision must be made for our sustenance.
The Council investigated the matter, and instructed the Bishop to make over to President Joseph Smith, junior, and Sidney Rigdon, each an eighty-acre lot of land from the property of the Church, situated adjacent to the city corporation; also appointed three of their number, viz., George W. Harris, Elias Higbee and Simeon Carter, a committee to confer with said Presidency, and satisfy them for their services the present year; not for preaching, or for receiving the word of God by revelation, neither for instructing the Saints in righteousness, but for services rendered in the printing establishment, in translating the ancient records, &c., &c. Said committee agreed that Presidents Smith and Rigdon should receive [$1,100 each] as a just remuneration for their services this year. * * *
EBENEEZER: The above named committee reported to the High Council, at a subsequent meeting, but the sum agreed upon is left blank in the history, as printed. The amount they asked for was ELEVEN HUNDRED DOLLARS each per annum.
The question was warmly discussed by the members of the Council until near sundown. George M. Hinkle bitterly opposed it, as the church had always been opposed to a salaried ministry. A majority of the Council however, favored the measure, so that when the vote
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was called, eleven voted for it, and one against it. But when it was noised abroad that the Council had taken such a step, the members of the church, almost to a man, lifted their voices against it. The expression of disapprobation was so strong and emphatic, that at the next meeting of the High Council the resolution voting them a salary, was rescinded.
We were present, and acted as clerk of the Council at both meetings, therefore know whereof we affirm.
A few days after the High Council refused to give a salary to Joseph Smith, jr. and Sidney Rigdon, the TITHING revelation of July 8, 1838, was given, in which the poor are not mentioned. But more on this subject hereafter. We now give further quotations from the history of Joseph Smith, jr. in which he says:
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EBENEEZER:
It will be remembered that on page 137 of the September number of THE RETURN, we gave an account of the High Council at Far West, in June, rescinding the vote which had previously passed, granting a salary to Presidents Joseph Smith, jr., and Sidney Rigdon, which left them without a salary. Therefore, four days after their declaration of Independence, Joseph Smith, jr., inquired of the Lord “how much thou requirest of the properties of thy people for a tithing?” notwithstanding it was already stated in a revelation in the book of Doctrine and Covenants what the Lord required of his people for a tithing, and he received the following:
JOSEPH SMITH:
TITHING REVELATION:
“Revelation given at Far West, Mo. July 8, 1838.
In answer to the question, O Lord, show unto thy servants how much thou requirest of the properties of thy people for a tithing?
1. Verily, thus saith the Lord, I require all their asurplus property to be put into the hands of the bishop of my church in Zion, for the building of mine house, and for the laying of the foundation of Zion, and for the priesthood, and for the debts of the presidency of my church; and this shall be the beginning of the tithing of my people; and, after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever,
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for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.
2. Verily I say unto you, it shall come to pass that all those who gather unto the land of Zion shall be tithed of their surplus properties, and shall observe this law, or they shall not be found worthy to abide among you. And I say unto you, if my people observe not this law, to keep it holy, and by this law sanctify the land of Zion unto me, that my statutes and my judgments may be kept thereon, that it may be most holy, behold, verily I say unto you, it shall not be a land of Zion unto you; and this shall be an ensample unto all the stakes of Zion. Even so. Amen. — D. C. 106.
EBENEEZER: There is no mention made of the poor in this revelation, and being personally acquainted with the circumstances under which it was given, we never could feel that the Lord ever gave it for the good of his people, neither can we believe it after seeing its practical workings for fifty years. We verily believe, if the Lord had anything to do with it, it was upon the principle set forth in the 14th chapter of Ezekiel; they evidently had “set up an idol in their hearts,” and the Lord answered them “according to their idols.”
We feel sure that had the High Council at Far West, carried out the resolution, and paid Joseph Smith, jr. and Sidney Rigdon, the salary they asked for, of eleven hundred dollars each per year, we would never have seen this tithing revelation. The church had been in existence over eight years, and had seen its purest, happiest days before that was given.
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DU: The Kirtalnd bank failed because the board made some dumb decisions.
Dumb decisions like like running an unlicensed bank and printing backed by nothing. I just don’t have time to bring up all the gory details right now, but dumb decisions are what you normally get from a grifter.
The link you cite to the Kirtland ledger is behind a login. If you have an active link where it can be downloaded it would be appreciated, the BYU links I’ve tried in the past never worked.
As far as “Who’s puffy now?” I only stop my rebuttal for lack of time. However, it’s clear Smith wasn’t adverse to taking a salary, so perhaps he was the corrupt one and not Godzilla.
Ooops, here’s the link to Ebenezer Robinson for above.
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/RigWrit/M&A/Return1.htm
Joseph Smith - prophet of convenient revelations. Remarkable information, I'm going to have to read more on this.