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To: prayforpeaceofJerusalem

Is it your contention that the “light that dwells with Him” was the light that was created on the first day? Is God not eternal, as well as the light that is with Him? If so, how was it thus created? Was the account of the creation about the earth & us, or does it have to do with other things that have nothing to do with us as well?

BTW, these questions are meant in sincerity & part of a reasoned discussion rather than a put down or a call out. I’m sincerely interested in your take.


1,358 posted on 05/14/2008 2:52:25 PM PDT by Reno232
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To: Reno232

No. Created light has darkness intertwined in it -I have to find the scientific article I once read on that.

“God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all”.
IN 1 Enoch The Son of Man was seen in heaven, hidden, who was with God and who was God. In Gensis Adam was made in His very image/similitude, as Genesis 1:26-28 and also Romans 5:14 state. There is only One Image of the Unseen, triune God, and that One image “Seen” is God the Word, and the Word is now come in human flesh as Kinsman/Redeemer to all in Adam [to whosoever will, that is].

All over Genesis the Hebrew word “ga’al” is used to speak of YHWH, and He also uses it to speak of Himself. That word is translated “Redeemer” and “Kinsman”, both, and YHWH was always to come as Kinsman to Adam, and Adam was made in his image that was to come [Romans 5:14].
The only way God is ever to be seen in the past or future is in the face of Jesus Christ, who was always God, always with God, and is God the Word.

Enoch saw Him in heaven, in a vision, and described Him as the Great Glory who is that unapproachable Light, of whom Paul spoke; and the mystery Enoch saw there was the hidden in God Son of Man, who was “secret”, whose “name was secret”, who was to come, and who was not only with God but who was God, and who was “from the beginning”.
John says He is Jesus, now come in flesh.
Jesus acknowledged that He was the Son of Man in heaven, now come down, seen and described only by Enoch. Enoch also said that he was the only one who was given to see that.

The only way to describe the Person of Christ pre-incarnation, as seen by Enoch as the hidden One who was to come, is that He was seen as the “alter ego” =another same self- of the Great Glory, who is the unapproachable Light whom no creature can look upon, and who Himself is not the Unseen Father, for the Father can no created being see.

In Revelation John saw Him as the Lamb that was slain and resurrected, and who was -again- an alter ego =another same self- of the One who sits on the throne. In the end of Revelation the Lamb and God have one face, one throne. In Enoch they are “One”, and the face is hidden, until Jesus is come in flesh.

In Genesis He is called the “Voice of the Presence/Face” of YHWH, when He walks in the garden, pre-incarnation.

Enoch sees Him as the son of Man who was to come, and John sees Him as the Lamb who was come and was slain and who is God the word, in flesh.
Enoch saw Him as not just the “Word of God”, but as the very “Oath of God” who created and upholds all creation.

The entire creation account is about all that is in creation, in the heavens and the earth. In six days He created heaven and earth and all that in them is, including the host of heaven, which is described as all the heavenly bodies and all the heavenly angelic beings.
Exodus 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is]...

Enoch’s vision of the Great Glory, whom “no creature can see”

Enoch 14 http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/enoch/ENOCH_1.HTM

And the vision was shown to me thus: Behold, in the vision clouds invited me and a mist summoned me, and the course of the stars and the lightnings sped and hastened me, and the winds in 9 the vision caused me to fly and lifted me upward, and bore me into heaven. And I went in till I drew nigh to a wall which is built of crystals and surrounded by tongues of fire: and it began to affright 10 me. And I went into the tongues of fire and drew nigh to a large house which was built of crystals: and the walls of the house were like a tesselated floor (made) of crystals, and its groundwork was 11 of crystal. Its ceiling was like the path of the stars and the lightnings, and between them were 12 fiery cherubim, and their heaven was (clear as) water. A flaming fire surrounded the walls, and its 13 portals blazed with fire. And I entered into that house, and it was hot as fire and cold as ice: there 14 were no delights of life therein: fear covered me, and trembling got hold upon me. And as I quaked 15 and trembled, I fell upon my face. And I beheld a vision, And lo! there was a second house, greater 16 than the former, and the entire portal stood open before me, and it was built of flames of fire. And in every respect it so excelled in splendour and magnificence and extent that I cannot describe to 17 you its splendour and its extent. And its floor was of fire, and above it were lightnings and the path 18 of the stars, and its ceiling also was flaming fire. And I looked and saw therein a lofty throne: its appearance was as crystal, and the wheels thereof as the shining sun, and there was the vision of 19 cherubim. And from underneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so that I could not look 20 thereon. And the Great Glory sat thereon, and His raiment shone more brightly than the sun and 21 was whiter than any snow. None of the angels could enter and could behold His face by reason 22 of the magnificence and glory and no flesh could behold Him. The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him: ten thousand times 23 ten thousand (stood) before Him, yet He needed no counselor. And the most holy ones who were 24 nigh to Him did not leave by night nor depart from Him. And until then I had been prostrate on my face, trembling: and the Lord called me with His own mouth, and said to me: ‘ Come hither, 25 Enoch, and hear my word.’ And one of the holy ones came to me and waked me, and He made me rise up and approach the door: and I bowed my face downwards.

Enoch sees the alter Ego -another same self- Christ who was to come as the Kinsman:
46 [Chapter 46]

1 And there I saw One who had a head of days,

And His head was white like wool,

And with Him was another being whose countenance had the appearance of a man,

And his face was full of graciousness, like one of the holy angels.

2 And I asked the angel who went with me and showed me all the hidden things, concerning that

3 Son of Man, who he was, and whence he was, (and) why he went with the Head of Days? And he answered and said unto me:

This is the son of Man who hath righteousness,

With whom dwelleth righteousness,


1,377 posted on 05/14/2008 4:57:38 PM PDT by prayforpeaceofJerusalem
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