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To: conservativegramma
Eve was created without sin. Do you doubt that?

Nope.

Wouldn't being created without sin be a greater thing than being created with the stain of sin? (Original sin, we speak of here.)

Nope.

Nope? You would rather be created with sin than without?

I can't argue with that, that's just insanity.

Mary herself acknowledged her own sin, so that don't fly. Luke 1:48a "For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden...(KJV)" "...humble state...."(NASV; NIV; ESV); "....LOWLY state..."(NKJV) As I stated in a previous post the Greek word here for low, lowly or humble means to affirm one's sinful condition or guilt before God.

That's fine and dandy, but we're talking about Eve, not Mary. Eve was created without original sin. But since you don't think that's better than being created with Original Sin, I can only assume you either have no idea what Original Sin is, or are insane and desire the dark things.

Your logical leaps with Luke 1:48 (being lower than God doesn't mean one is sinful) can wait for another day till you sort out whether sin is beteer than no sin.

758 posted on 05/05/2008 5:56:48 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
I can't argue with that, that's just insanity.

What's insanity is trying to argue that a woman created without sin, who then rebells against her creator, bringing a curse upon herself and all mankind is somehow greater.

I can only assume you either have no idea what Original Sin is,

I believe I have a better grasp than you do trying to produce a 'sinless' woman from two very human 'sinful' parents, i.e. Mary's folks. Unless you are now trying to maintain one of them was also sinless????? Luke 3 beginning in v. 23 never mentions this, perhaps you have an extra-biblical source? Again: Romans 3:23 - FOR ALL HAVE SINNED.......

Your logical leaps with Luke 1:48 (being lower than God doesn't mean one is sinful) can wait for another day till you sort out whether sin is beteer than no sin.

The word for 'low or humble' estate is ταπείνωσιν (tapeinōsin) My Greek Word study says the following:

ταπείνωσις (tapeinōsis 5014)
1. humiliation
a lowering, humbling, abasing; lowliness.

2. low estate
a making low, humiliation. in NT, the being brought low, low estate, humiliation.

3. vile
humiliation; here, generally, of humiliation.

ταπείνωσις (tapeinōsis, 5014), -εως, ἡ, (ταπεινόω), lowness, low estate, [humiliation]: Lk. i. 48; Acts viii. 33 (fr. Is. liii. 8); Phil. iii. 21 (on which see σῶμα, 1 b.); metaph. spiritual abasement, leading one to perceive and lament his (moral) littleness and guilt, Jas. i. 10, see Kern ad loc. (In various senses, by Plat., Aristot., Polyb., Diod., Plut.; Sept. for עֳנִי.) [See reff. s. v. ταπεινοφροσύνη.]*

Perhaps you'd care to explain how tapeinōsin which does mean humiliation, low estate, or even vile and which has no other meanings could mean anything else BUT SIN in Luke 1:48? Unless now you're trying to maintain that being pregant with the Son of God is a vile humiliation???? Think man and look at the text. I'm sorry but I'll take the authority of Greek scholars as to what this word means over you.

776 posted on 05/05/2008 6:24:41 PM PDT by conservativegramma
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To: SoothingDave
Heads up: I've noticed (based on a sample of only 2) that people who think that original sin is a genetic issue and passed down by the male are also unwilling or unable to stay on topic and fond of thinly veiled personal assault.

Save your breath.

780 posted on 05/05/2008 6:33:41 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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