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To: conservativegramma; Petronski
The strange thing is that the words you attribute to Luther can ONLY be found at known anti-Catholic sites (Ian Paisley's hate site for instance). They simply DO NOT correspond with what is acknowledged to be true and Lutheran teachings that remain unchanged.

If Luther had a problem with Marian beliefs one would think that he surely could have managed a 96th Thesis.

And the word you choose to call "until" is actually "til" and it doesn't matter because neither word means that the future event occurred. Even the questionable quote you gave speaks of her virginity in a perpetual sense.

Protestants don't reject the view that Mary was the most blessed of women.

Then she MUST have been preserved from the stain of sin, otherwise Eve would be the most blessed woman. And it would hardly be right to say that the mother of Cain is in any way superior to the mother of our Lord.

645 posted on 05/05/2008 1:03:40 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
The strange thing is that the words you attribute to Luther can ONLY be found at known anti-Catholic sites...

Ditto with what you post being found only at Catholic sites.

If Luther had a problem with Marian beliefs one would think that he surely could have managed a 96th Thesis.

Might me because the doctrine of Mary's becoming sinless and a co-Savior really didn't begin to take hold until the last 100 years or so with a papal decree about the mid-1800's. Besides which Luther was not attacking every Doctrine of the church he was trying to reform the church and get rid of unbiblical teaching and error regarding salvation hence the term: "REFORMation".

And the word you choose to call "until" is actually "til" and it doesn't matter because neither word means that the future event occurred.

Poppycock. You obviously don't know New Testament Greek. And you still did not answer the obvious question. Did God expect Joseph to take a wife and REMAIN CELEBATE the rest of his married life?????? And if so, where is your scriptural support????? If your interpretation is correct that is what happened.......

Then she MUST have been preserved from the stain of sin, otherwise Eve

Why??? Sin is passed through the male, not the female. "Some Bible commentators, with whom I agree, hold the position that the sin nature is passed down through the father. Support for this position is found in the fact that sin entered the world through Adam, not Eve. Remember, Eve was the one who sinned first. However, sin did not enter the world through her. It entered through Adam. Rom. 5:12 says, "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned." The concept behind this is called Federal Headship. This means that a person (a father) represents his descendants. We see this concept taught in Heb. 7:9-10, "And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes, for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him." We see in Hebrews that Levi, a distant descendant of Abraham, is said to have paid tithes to Melchizedek when Abraham was the one offering the tithes, not Levi. What this means is that there is biblical support for the idea that the sin nature was passed down through the father. Since Jesus had not a literal, biological father, the sin nature was not passed down to Him. However, since He had a human mother, he was fully human but without original sin. Jesus has two natures: God and man. Col. 2:9 says, "For in Him dwells all the fullness of deity in bodily form." Jesus received His human nature from Mary, but He received His divine nature through God the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Jesus is both God and man. He was sinless, had no original sin, and was both fully God and fully man." (http://www.carm.org/questions/Jesus_original_sin.htm) And Mary was not required to be sinless according to Scripture, only unbiblical teaching OUTSIDE of Scripture says this.

656 posted on 05/05/2008 2:25:27 PM PDT by conservativegramma
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