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I love you guys, but the Reformation happened, because the Catholic Church was a mess. That, and the fact that God wanted it to. Deal with it.

So does is say that in the bible or is that simply an opinion? Are we better off now that the reformation occurred? Did we solve the corruption of indulgences or are we still building worship palaces on the credit card donations sent to televangelists?

Are Joel Osteen, Jimmy Swaggart, John Shelby Spong, Benny Hinn, Katherine Jefferts Schori, and many others an improvement over some of the Roman Catholic clergy and hierarchy of the 15th century? Is the protestant church (or are the protestant churches) less of a mess than the Catholic church was?

Are more or fewer people in the west (on a percentage basis) among the faithful? Do more or fewer literate people read the bible? Is the Christian faith a greater or a lesser influence on our culture?

Also, after 500 years, why do protestants still define themselves in terms of the Catholic church (or is there something else that they are protesting)?

These “tele-evangelist’s” that you speak of are only a blimp on the radar. They will one day answer to God for their deception! There are thousands of God-fearing protestant pastors in churches across this land who make huge sacrifices to do what they do. There are also thousands of others throughout the world. There are missionaries who put their lives on the line daily and some who die for their faith. Millions will spend eternity in heaven because of the protestant reformation. On the other hand, millions of Catholics who thought they were saved by the church instead of faith in Christ will split hell wide-open. Their blood will also be on the hands of popes, bishops, and priest who led the masses astray.

“Are more or fewer people in the west (on a percentage basis) among the faithful? Do more or fewer literate people read the bible? Is the Christian faith a greater or a lesser influence on our culture?”

I guess it depends on whether “faithful” means going through the motions of saying/listening to some stuff in a foreign language and eating a wafer(and having no clue what they mean), or actually receiving Christ. Wars have been fought over that over issue, so don’t presume to gloss over it on a message board. You give a list of questionable teachers from modern Protestantism, ignoring the recent and past dirty laundry of Roman Catholocism.

I don’t know your level of Latin scholarship, but I took five years, and I literally thank God for the King James Version.

Most Protestants don’t define themselves in terms of the Catholic church. Most don’t even think about it, which is a shame.

You might know less about Protestant theology than many Southern Baptists know about the Catholic church. It’s hard to tell.

Are Joel Osteen, Jimmy Swaggart, John Shelby Spong, Benny Hinn, Katherine Jefferts Schori, and many others an improvement over some of the Roman Catholic clergy and hierarchy of the 15th century?

Actually, they are. The people you named represent a FRACTION of Christians in America. The 15th century Catholic Church was corrupt from the top down, and did not spread its corruption on one or two cable channels - it did it throughout the entire world.

I don't know where you've been going to church, but Protestants in modern America tend to just call themselves Christians. Half of them don't even know what the word Protestant means, nor do they care. In a post-denominational America, Protestant is one more label that is is just not used, anymore.

I’m throwing my hat in the ring here. I think we ARE better off now that the Reformation occurred. Otherwise, we’d probably still be buying indulgences from the Church so the Church could buy more “stuff.” FWIW, the Catholic church still does this to some degree by allowing people to “PAY” for masses. If the Catholic church really believes that masses are integral for the souls of the departed, they should do it for FREE. Jesus didn’t charge his disciples.

As for Osteen, Swaggert, et al, they are no worse (and I’d like to be very clear here that I despise these people; Osteen is probably the least offensive - he doesn’t preach a wrong Gospel, he just preaches the “happy” parts, unlike Hinn who is just a moonbat) than many of the Popes that you and I both know have done insidious things.

As for Protestants defining themselves by the Catholic church, the name has apparently stuck. Why are you still called Catholic since you aren’t really universal at all? I don’t refer to MYSELF as a Protestant but as a Christian and most of my Christian brothers and sisters say the same, even many of the Catholics I know.

Finally, it is a sad fact that the West is declining in the number of faithful. This can be blamed on many things (post modernism for example) but, of course, we know who is behind all of this. Nothing has changed from the beginning in the Garden, nor will it until our Lord returns. The good news, however, is that Christianity is growing in leaps and bounds in places like Africa and China.

Let’s try to spend our time on stopping the spread of Islam and preaching the Gospel to those who are truly lost.