Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Protestants and Sola Scriptura
Catholic Net ^ | George Sim Johnston

Posted on 05/03/2008 4:38:34 PM PDT by NYer

Scripture, our Evangelical friends tell us, is the inerrant Word of God. Quite right, the Catholic replies; but how do you know this to be true?


It's not an easy question for Protestants, because, having jettisoned Tradition and the Church, they have no objective authority for the claims they make for Scripture. There is no list of canonical books anywhere in the Bible, nor does any book (with the exception of St. John's Apocalypse) claim to be inspired. So, how does a "Bible Christian" know the Bible is the Word of God?


If he wants to avoid a train of thought that will lead him into the Catholic Church, he has just one way of responding: With circular arguments pointing to himself (or Luther or the Jimmy Swaggart Ministries or some other party not mentioned in the Bible) as an infallible authority telling him that it is so. Such arguments would have perplexed a first or second century Christian, most of whom never saw a Bible.


Christ founded a teaching Church. So far as we know, he himself never wrote a word (except on sand). Nor did he commission the Apostles to write anything. In due course, some Apostles (and non-Apostles) composed the twenty-seven books which comprise the New Testament. Most of these documents are ad hoc; they are addressed to specific problems that arose in the early Church, and none claim to present the whole of Christian revelation. It's doubtful that St. Paul even suspected that his short letter to Philemon begging pardon for a renegade slave would some day be read as Holy Scripture.


Who, then, decided that it was Scripture? The Catholic Church. And it took several centuries to do so. It was not until the Council of Carthage (397) and a subsequent decree by Pope Innocent I that Christendom had a fixed New Testament canon. Prior to that date, scores of spurious gospels and "apostolic" writings were floating around the Mediterranean basin: the Gospel of Thomas, the "Shepherd" of Hermas, St. Paul's Letter to the Laodiceans, and so forth. Moreover, some texts later judged to be inspired, such as the Letter to the Hebrews, were controverted. It was the Magisterium, guided by the Holy Spirit, which separated the wheat from the chaff.


But, according to Protestants, the Catholic Church was corrupt and idolatrous by the fourth century and so had lost whatever authority it originally had. On what basis, then, do they accept the canon of the New Testament? Luther and Calvin were both fuzzy on the subject. Luther dropped seven books from the Old Testament, the so-called Apocrypha in the Protestant Bible; his pretext for doing so was that orthodox Jews had done it at the synod of Jamnia around 100 A. D.; but that synod was explicitly anti-Christian, and so its decisions about Scripture make an odd benchmark for Christians.


Luther's real motive was to get rid of Second Maccabees, which teaches the doctrine of Purgatory. He also wanted to drop the Letter of James, which he called "an epistle of straw," because it flatly contradicts the idea of salvation by "faith alone" apart from good works. He was restrained by more cautious Reformers. Instead, he mistranslated numerous New Testament passages, most notoriously Romans 3:28, to buttress his polemical position.


The Protestant teaching that the Bible is the sole spiritual authority--sola scriptura --is nowhere to be found in the Bible. St. Paul wrote to Timothy that Scripture is "useful" (which is an understatemtn), but neither he nor anyone else in the early Church taught sola scriptura. And, in fact, nobody believed it until the Reformation. Newman called the idea that God would let fifteen hundred years pass before revealing that the bible was the sole teaching authority for Christians an "intolerable paradox."


Newman also wrote: "It is antecedently unreasonable to Bsuppose that a book so complex, so unsystematic, in parts so obscure, the outcome of so many minds, times, and places, should be given us from above without the safeguard of some authority; as if it could possibly, from the nature of the case, interpret itself...." And, indeed, once they had set aside the teaching authority of the Church, the Reformers began to argue about key Scriptural passages. Luther and Zwingli, for example, disagreed vehemently about what Christ meant by the words, "This is my Body."


St. Augustine, usually Luther's guide and mentor, ought to have the last word about sola scriptura: "But for the authority of the Church, I would not believe the Gospel."


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ecumenism; Theology
KEYWORDS: 345; bible; chart; fog; gseyfried; luther; onwardthroughthefog; onwardthruthefog; scripture; seyfried; solascriptura; thefog
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 661-680681-700701-720 ... 2,181-2,191 next last
To: editor-surveyor

And you know “God’s perfect word” perfectly? You seem as resistant to new thought as the Bereans were open to it.


681 posted on 05/05/2008 4:26:06 PM PDT by SoothingDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 677 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor

I agree. EVERYTHING I have ever seen indicates that John’s writings ALL date from the late First Century and decades AFTER Paul was martyred.


682 posted on 05/05/2008 4:26:08 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 678 | View Replies]

To: SoothingDave
"and that one can be full of sin and still be more blessed than any other woman, even one created without sin."

Are you into mythology?

There has been no woman since eve without sin.

683 posted on 05/05/2008 4:27:43 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Jimmy Carter is the skidmark in the panties of American History)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 673 | View Replies]

To: Petronski
[ The mockery is your invention. / All we do is follow Christ’s commands. ]

The Roman catholic abomination is a MOCKING of Christ and his Kingdom from the Vatican to the Knights of Columbus.. from the gaudy vestments to last drop of holy water.. from purgatory to the robotic and mechanical prayer of the rosary..

684 posted on 05/05/2008 4:31:39 PM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 601 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor; SoothingDave
There has been no woman since eve without sin.

Well over ONE BILLION CHRISTIANS would beg to differ, as did ALL of the prominent Protestant Reformers.

685 posted on 05/05/2008 4:32:19 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 683 | View Replies]

To: SoothingDave
"You seem as resistant to new thought as the Bereans were open to it."

The bereans were not open to 'new thought,' they searched the scriptures to challenge anything that appeared to be 'new thought.' ("...there is no new thing under the sun...")

686 posted on 05/05/2008 4:32:20 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Jimmy Carter is the skidmark in the panties of American History)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 681 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor

So Eve was more blessed? Or is a lack of sinfullness not a blessing?


687 posted on 05/05/2008 4:32:27 PM PDT by SoothingDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 683 | View Replies]

To: SoothingDave
and that one can be full of sin and still be more blessed than any other woman, even one created without sin.

Eve's sinless nature at birth is certainly offset by her participation in the first sinful act, and her sinful nature thereafter. How then would she, in her fallen state, be blessed at all? More to the point she was cursed, and all her progeny.

Compare that to being selected to be the mother of the savior of the world, to be the vessel bringing forth salvation, and an end to the very curse laid upon Adam and Eve. It certainly does not take very much to be higher on the 'blessed' scale than Eve.

688 posted on 05/05/2008 4:32:56 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 673 | View Replies]

To: Petronski
You capitalized truth. That has a different meaning than you claim now.

You're just nit-pickin' to try to gain some ground on the discussion...The TRUTH is the word of God and the Word of God...

You guys seem to think you can understand and expound on scripture using common sense and logic...

689 posted on 05/05/2008 4:33:47 PM PDT by Iscool
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 670 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

“for all have sinned and come short...”


690 posted on 05/05/2008 4:34:01 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Jimmy Carter is the skidmark in the panties of American History)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 685 | View Replies]

To: hosepipe

The Roman catholic abomination is a MOCKING of Christ and his Kingdom from the Vatican to the Knights of Columbus.. from the gaudy vestments to last drop of holy water.. from purgatory to the robotic and mechanical prayer of the rosary..

++++++++++++++++++++++

Wow.

So much ignorance in one post.

Wow.

Have you not ever looked into the reasons for each of those things? The Rosary...is hardly a mechanical prayer...if you’re doing it right. The Knights of Columbus (I’m a Fourth Degree Knight) isn’t anything but a great group of guys helping their community with the assistance and guidance of Christ.

Look into this stuff...and preferably do it by visiting a Catholic Church. Or FReepmail me - and I’ll answer any questions you have.

One question for you:

To what confession do you belong? Please be specific...none of this “I’m a Christian cop-out”


691 posted on 05/05/2008 4:35:15 PM PDT by AlaninSA (In tabulario donationem feci.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 684 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor
The bereans were not open to 'new thought,' they searched the scriptures to challenge anything that appeared to be 'new thought

So the Bereans would have spontaneously become Christian without any teaching from Paul or another disciple?

Or are you playing word games? Did Paul bring a new message, a new good news, or was it all a re-hash?

692 posted on 05/05/2008 4:35:30 PM PDT by SoothingDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 686 | View Replies]

To: FourtySeven; Quix
[ Pontifex Maximus means "supreme bridge maker (or builder)". ]

You're playing DUMB... real dumb.. most people are not THAT dumb..

693 posted on 05/05/2008 4:35:46 PM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 636 | View Replies]

To: Iscool
You guys seem to think you can understand and expound on scripture using common sense and logic...

And we see that you do no such thing.

694 posted on 05/05/2008 4:36:59 PM PDT by SoothingDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 689 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor

Does this mean all are sinners or all have actually committed sin? What about an infant who dies within moments of birth, has he committed actual sin?


695 posted on 05/05/2008 4:37:02 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 690 | View Replies]

To: SoothingDave
"So Eve was more blessed?"

Eve was accursed. Many sinners have been "blessed" to some degree; especially those that have been saved, huh?

696 posted on 05/05/2008 4:38:54 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Jimmy Carter is the skidmark in the panties of American History)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 687 | View Replies]

To: SoothingDave
"So Eve was more blessed?"

Eve was accursed. Many sinners have been "blessed" to some degree; especially those that have been saved, huh?

697 posted on 05/05/2008 4:39:07 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Jimmy Carter is the skidmark in the panties of American History)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 687 | View Replies]

To: AlaninSA
[ To what confession do you belong? Please be specific...none of this “I’m a Christian cop-out” ]

Not all christians are the reformed or the orthodox.. I am metaphorically in the pasture (John ch 10).. most all christians are in the sheep pen(a)... I am not..

698 posted on 05/05/2008 4:40:12 PM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 691 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

Is there any point to that argument? Are we talking about an infant?


699 posted on 05/05/2008 4:40:56 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Jimmy Carter is the skidmark in the panties of American History)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 695 | View Replies]

To: roamer_1
Eve's sinless nature at birth is certainly offset by her participation in the first sinful act, and her sinful nature thereafter. How then would she, in her fallen state, be blessed at all?

Was Eve being created without sin a blessing?

Is it better to be with sin than without sin?

It's ridiculous to even ask the question, yet that is what your arguments imply.

God created Eve out of nothing, in a perfectly sinless state. How is that not a blessing?

700 posted on 05/05/2008 4:41:05 PM PDT by SoothingDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 688 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 661-680681-700701-720 ... 2,181-2,191 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson