Posted on 05/02/2008 6:55:44 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
Judge for yourself: LDS 19th century old men: "Joseph E. Robinson recalled that President Lorenzo Snow told him that he had father a child in his eighty-eighth year." (source B. Carmon Hardy, Solemn Covenant, p. 93) Even the LDS "prophet" who posted a manifesto to "end" polygamy added a wife in 1897 when 90-year-old Wilford Woodruff married 49-year-old Lydia Mountford. (Remember this wasn’t early Old Testament era where men were living hundreds of years)
The following is from: http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ldsleadersbelievepolygamyinheaven.htm
Sandra Tanner: It should be noted that the first seven presidents of the LDS Church practiced plural marriage. For example, my great-great grandfather Brigham Young was married to over 50 women and fathered at least 56 children. His successor was Apostle John Taylor, who had 14 wives and 36 children. 22 First Seven Presidents of the LDS Church were Polygamists
1. Joseph Smith, President from 1830-1844, at least 33 wives, 7 children by Emma, unknown if any by plural wives.
2. Brigham Young, President from 1847-1877, over 50 wives, 56 children.
3. John Taylor, President from 1880-1887, at least 14 wives, approx. 36 children.
4. Wilford Woodruff, President from 1889-1898, at least 10 wives, approx. 34 children.
5. Lorenzo Snow, President from 1898-1901, at least 9 wives, 33 children. ,br>6. Joseph F. Smith, President from 1901-1918, 6 wives, 43 children.
7. Heber J. Grant, President from 1918-1945, 3 wives, 12 children. According to LDS doctrine, these men will have all of their faithful wives and children with them in the resurrection, which would mean they will be living polygamy in the Celestial Kingdom.
The following multi-paragraph excerpt is from http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no91.htm:
"Fanny Stenhouse was at one time had been a firm believer in Mormonism and had even allowed her husband to take another wife." She wrote: "It would be quite impossible, with any regard to propriety, to relate all the horrible results of this disgraceful system.... Marriages have been contracted between the nearest of relatives; and old men tottering on the brink of the grave have been united to little girls scarcely in their teens; while unnatural alliances of every description, which in any other community would be regarded with disgust and abhorrence, are here entered into in the name of God...It is quite a common thing in Utah for a man to marry two or even three sisters.... I know also another man who married a widow with several children; and when one of the girls had grown into her teens he insisted on marrying her also... and to this very day the daughter bears children to her step-father, living as wife in the same house with her mother!" (Tell It All, 1874, pages 468-69)
An entry added to Joseph Smith's private dairy after his death confirms that Smith believed a man could be married for eternity to his own sister. It appears under the date of October 26, 1843, and reads as follows: "The following named deceased persons were sealed to me (John M. Bernhisel) on Oct[ober] 26th 1843, by President Joseph Smith: Maria Bernhisel, sister; Brother Samuel's wife, Catherine Kremer; Mary Shatto (Aunt)... [eight other names follow] \ John M. Bernhisel \ Recorded by Rob[er]t L. Campbell, July 29th 1868." (An American Prophet's Record: The Diaries and Journals of Joseph Smith, Edited by Scott H. Faulring, 1987, page 424) The reader will notice that Joseph Smith sealed John M. Bernhisel to his own sister.If the doctrine of Celestial Marriage were really true, in the resurrection John Bernhisel would find himself married to his own sister Maria Bernhisel!
Joseph Smith, the first Mormon prophet, asserted that "God himself, who sits enthroned in yonder heavens, is a man like unto one of yourselves..." (Times and Seasons, Vol. 5, pages 613-14) He also taught that God was married and had billions of spirit children in the pre-existence. In other words, according to Smith's theology, we were all born of God and his wife and lived as his sons and daughters before coming to earth. [End utlm citation]
IOW, since LDS believe we already are brothers and sisters in the alleged "pre-existent" life before being born, what's wrong with marrying same said brothers and sisters on earth? (IOW, nobody on earth even qualifies as a non-brother or sister!) To cite LDS apostle Bruce R. McConkie from a devotional he gave at BYU, "Our relationship with the Son is one of brother or sister in the premortal life and one of being led to the Father by him while in this mortal sphere.” That's why we get quotes from Brigham Young like what you cited:
Again citing http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no91.htm, "Mormon scholar Jessie L. Embry, of the church's Brigham Young University, acknowledged that as late as 1886 Lorenzo Snow, who became the fifth prophet of the Mormon Church, still secretly held to the belief that brothers and sisters could marry. Embry cited from the journal of Apostle Abraham H. Cannon to prove the point": ...Abraham H. Cannon, an apostle recorded in 1886 that he talked with 'Pres. [Lorenzo] Snow about various doctrines. Bro Snow said I would live to see the time when brothers and sisters would marry each other in this church. All our horror at such an union was due entirely to prejudice and the offspring of such union would be healthy and pure as any other. These were the decided views of Pres. Young when alive, for Bro. S. talked to him freely on this matter.' (Journal of Mormon History, 1992, page 106)
Looks like we have found one of the Brain Damaged ones!
And NOW you how PIG LATIN was invented!!
Mainstream Mormonism:
At a stake conference over 100 years ago, mainstream LDS leader George Q. Cannon of the First Presidency said: The people of the world do not believe in breeding, but we do. So the people of the world will die out and we will fill the whole earth. I admit those raising children by plural wives are not complying with man-made laws, but in the sight of God they are not sinning, as there is no sin in it. (George Q. Cannon, Sanpete Stake conference, Sept., 1899. Smoot Investigation, Vol. 1, p. 9.) [BTW, fLDS still cite this LDS source!!]
It's early yet!
"Then I reckon that the children of Adam and Eve married each other; this is speaking to the point. I believe in sisters marrying brothers, and brothers having their sisters for wives.... "This is something pertaining to our marriage relation. The whole world will think what an awful thing it is. What an awful thing it would be if the Mormons should just say we believe in marrying brothers and sisters. Well we shall be under the necessity of doing it, because we cannot find anybody else to marry."
(The Teachings of President Brigham Young, Compiled and Edited by Fred C. Collier, Vol. 3, pages 362, 368)
Is this POSSIBLE? ;^)
Bill Monroe might disagree.
if you ever get a chance - a gent by the name of Red Foley did a version of “Peace in the Valley” a young Chet Atkins was his guitarist
They had the benefit of being around women/girls/boys who never used the word *NO*.
And couldn't really say "no" unless they were prepared to leave the church. (Can you imagine being a devout Catholic & the Pope comes to you & says, "You will marry me"????)
Surprisingly a number of women eventually did divorce some of the LDS "prophets" and general authorities. (But that was "no" well after the fact)
So with the Exxon scandals, & big corporation scandals, I suppose you don't work for "Organized Corporate America," either, eh?
Or with many unethical folks doing unethical things with their small businesses, you don't work for any of them, either, right?
Or with counterfeiters on the loose, you or your family would never do "cashier" work @ a place of business, right?
Or with identity thieves on the loose on the Internet, coupled, with occasional supposedly "secure" online info--including financial info--getting into the hands of the criminal element, I suppose you've never conducted any online financial transactions, either, then?
And...I could go on to customize something especially for you if I knew more about you...but needless to say, I marvel at your consistency...that you've been able to "stay clean" from all "organized" cultural corruption, theft, illicit affairs, and any other "conspiracies" afoot out there. (Please let us know how you do it...inquiring minds want to know!)
Its getting sicker & sicker!! What on earth is wrong with these people & why isn’t somebody ending this...
Stay out of others business and business practices.
Don't do any financial business on-line (nor do I cash checks). Yes I have a bank.
Not sure where you're going with this but, I thought we were discussing unbecoming *religious* practices.
Stay out of others business and business practices.
Don't do any financial business on-line (nor do I cash checks). Yes I have a bank.
Not sure where you're going with this but, I thought we were discussing unbecoming *religious* practices.
From a bitter Pennsylvanian, all I can add is 'G-d Bless Texas!.
In case you wondered, I am a Christian.
Well my purpose behind those posts wasn't to evaluate your relationship with Christ, rather just to ask if you were being consistent.
Some folks use "religion" as a replacement for Christianity.
Others use it as a "catch-all" for everything "religious."
Some folks say "religion" is man's effort to reach God; but Christianity is God's effort to relate to man.
And some acknowledge that the Bible rarely uses the term (book of James, for example).
When you used the term, "organized religion" and your avoidance of it, I took it to mean that you either...
...going more "solo..." '
...or a home church...
...or nothing at all.
The fact that all the Christians I know "organize" their faith life with other Christians, I generally see it as a "good" word...as for "religion," I generally see it as a ritualistic nominal replacement for "Christianity" and except for the positive usage by James, it generally has become a "negative" term.
So, while tis good to avoid "man-made" religion...I would not say the same thing about an authentic "organized Christian faith."
So Christianity is anarchistic? Maybe you don't go to church, but if you are a Christian, then you are part of the Body of Christ. Last time I looked the Body of Christ was not disorganized.
BTW if you think you can be a lone-wolf Christian and not be in fellowship with the rest of the body, then maybe you aren't a part of the body after all.
My advice... get with the organization. The Churches are filled to overflowing with hypocrites and sinners like me. We're more than happy to welcome another into our midst.
Need directions?
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