Posted on 04/30/2008 7:47:49 AM PDT by Pyro7480
Some Protestants accuse the Catholic Church of having dropped one of the 10 Commandments. "You're idolators! You worship statues! And because you do, your Church dropped the commandment against graven images!"
The truth, of course, is that the Catholic Church did not and could not change the Ten Commandments. Latin Catholics and Protestants simply list them differently. It is incredible that such a pernicious lie could be so easily spread and believed, especially since the truth could easily be determined by just looking into the matter. But the rumor lives.
Now, below are the ways in which Protestants and Roman Catholics enumerate the Commandments:
[See link above or below]
So what the heck? What did happen to the commandment about graven images in the Catholic listing? Did the Church just "drop" a commandment?
Um, no. The Old Testament was around long before the time of the Apostles, and the Decalogue, which is found in three different places in the Bible (Exodus 20 and Exodous 34 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21), has not been changed by the Catholic Church. Chapter and verse divisions are a medieval invention, however, and numbering systems of the Ten Words (Commandments), the manner in which they are grouped, and the "short-hand" used for them, vary among various religious groups. Exodus 20 is the version most often referred to when one speaks of the Ten Commandments, so it will be our reference point here....
Catholic ping!
God did the Top Ten list about 4000 years before Letterman was born.
Thanks if it was you who inserted the needed links into my thread. :-D
“You’re idolators! You worship statues! And because you do, your Church dropped the commandment against graven images!”
I won’t waste the time of day refuting such nonsense. Everytime that I have debated individuals on this it turns out that they are not particularly interested in the truth, but have their own agendas.
Many Christians that I know will patiently listen to my explanation that we don’t “pray to statues” or, for that matter, pray “to saints and dead people” and simply give me an “oh, I didn’t know that.”
And much more meaningful too right?
Thank you. You receive my award for “Post of the Day!!!”
So, what are Catholic people doing when they appear to be praying to Saints? I ask because all of the devout Catholics that I have met have been wonderfull people and the Catholic church has done a better job on social issues than most protestant churches. But as a protestant some of the Catholic practices seem a little strange to me. Especially the Mary veneration which always seemed like idolotry.
We pray to saints asking for their intercession with The Almighty.
At this very moment, I am wearing a St. Anthony’s medal.
I pray to the Blessed Mother every morning by saying three “Hail Mary’s(not the pass).”
There’s nothing nefarious about this practice. It is an ancient one within the church.
Many of my non-Catholic friends are always happy to hear that I remember them in prayers to the saints for assistance in their lives - especially the ill or troubled.
Great post, but given what I’ve seen on FR whenever the Church is addressed... I can only predict great things for this thread. ;) I sometimes think that when it comes to the Church, FR nearly rivals DU for its sheer antipathy.
most protestants, in this regard, are agitators who set up strawmen, some willingly, some out of ignorance, and sometimes it is hard to talk with them about His true One Holy CATHOLIC and Apostolic church, but you try, just the same, even if just to plant a seed...
and lots of prayer to water it....
Thanks for the explanation. Do you know if there is any Biblical support for this practice?
Ok, now that we've got that in front of us, we consider our prayers to Saints, asking them to help us bring our petitions to God, no different than the various prayer threads posted on FR every day. And the reason Mary is the greatest advocate is because she is the Mother of God, and Jesus, as a devout Jew, honored (and continues to honor) His Mother. I'm gone for most of the day, but if you'd like to keep talking about this (and 500 other people can't answer all your questions) I am happy to!
The fundamentalist types have all kinds of weird ideas about what goes on in Catholic Mass.
Among the weirdest was Jack Chick’s assertation that the IHS (Iesus Hominum Salvator-—Jesus, Savior of Men) on Communion wafers really means “Isis, Horus and Seb” (the first two were pagan deities in ancient egypt, which he claimed that Catholics were actually worshipping. I have never even heard of Seb. The other charge is transparently ridiculous, but many of the fundamentalist crew believe it or things like it)
I think the confusion comes with the word, “Pray”.
I talk to the saints the same way I talk to my dead mother.
I have been asking St. Monica to intercede for me to Our Lord about my Goddaughter who turned Wiccan. Yesterday she called me and said she is joining a church. WooooHooooo!
It’s a “two people praying together” type thing.
Top 10 signs humans still don't get it.
1. They are still fighting about where to put the numbers in the 10 commandments.
A very, very good question. I really don’t know. I’ve never thought of that question.
I’ll ask St. Anthony! :)
Oh,yeah, big time. I can think of a couple that will have a field day with this thread ... except that field days are for those with idle hands, I think. But they'll go nuts on the whole graven images and idoltry stuff. And then they'll ask you to explain stuff, when they're really saying, "Give me an opening to spew . . . "
Yup. Gotta check this thread out again tonight to see how it turned out.
Ok, I think I understand the distinction that you are making between prayer as a petition and prayer as worship. And it certainly would make sense to me to ask a living (on earth) Christian to pray for someone. However, when you talk to someone who is dead isn’t that similar to the seance type of thing that we are not supposed to be involved with. Kind of like what Saul got in trouble with when he tried to have the Witch of Endor call up Samuel so that he could ask his advice. I am not trying to be hostile - you gave me a great answer to my first question and I do genuinly want to hear a Catholic perspective on this.
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