What old-guard feminists get wrong about Catholics

Dallas News ^ | April 27, 2008 | Kathryn Jean Lopez

[TraditionalistMommy]

Rod Steiger was an actor, not a priest. There’s your problem.

[eastsider]

Hmm... if we have reached the point of hysterical, sarcastic red herring arguments ...

Too bad you didn't think about that before you started dismissing those who disagree with you as misogynists : )

[GCC Catholic]

Firstly, I haven’t seen any of you provide statistics to support your claims. All the available numbers suggest, time and again, that church attendance is dropping, there are fewer priests every year, and Catholic schools are in crisis and closing in great numbers.

I don't have numbers at my disposal, nor do I have the time to go find them. I have qualitative support: traditional orders are growing; orthodox dioceses are producing priests; liberal/"progressive" dioceses and orders are withering away IN REGARDS TO CLERGY AND PROFESSED RELIGIOUS. Until this is remedied, the church attendance issue will not be fixed and cannot be fixed. Are the orthodox dioceses still bleeding parishioners and thin on priests? Sure. Are the orthodox religious orders still small? Certainly. But they aren't as small, they aren't bleeding as badly, and they have genuine hope that the situation will get better. Look at the FSSP, or the Society of St. John Cantius, or the Dioceses of Lincoln and St. Louis, or Kenrick-Glennon and St. Charles Borromeo. Compare them to their less traditionally-minded counterparts. It cannot be ignored.

I can only speak for what i know: my fellow seminarians from our rather small diocese have absolutely no interest in liberal or modernist concepts.

You never answered my question: HOW do you explain the trends that exist, which are in stark contrast to your assertion?

[TraditionalistMommy]

I think he dismissed himself as a misogynist quite efficiently with “I think women should be silent and keep their heads covered” in Catholic churches.

At some point, you gotta tell it like it is. Now I really have to go!

[TraditionalistMommy]

I don’t know how you can expect me to explain something you, yourself, can’t provide any evidence to support. The burden of proof is on you, I’m afraid.

[jjm2111]

The majority of catholics also do not believe in the True Presence or any need for the Sacrament of Confession. Are they right?

You also never answered this question. Please look into this. Just because the “majority” of a MSM poll supports something doesn’t mean that it’s accurate.

[TraditionalistMommy]

Why do you object to the term “fundamentalist”?

[GCC Catholic]

I disagree. Those not in favor of women’s ordination tend to be too old to reproduce.

Interesting observation. I happen to be 1)in college and 2)a college seminarian. None of the other seminarians nor the other students I know who actually take interest in their faith are willing to support such concepts that you propose.

[TraditionalistMommy]

Are you planning to reproduce?

[TraditionalistMommy]

Hey, I’m fielding questions from a lot of people here, doing my best!

Can you provide statistics supporting your claim?

[Petronski]

The majority of Catholics in this country favor ordaining women priests.

What a tragic failure of Catechesis!

[GCC Catholic]

It’s non-numerical data. Full seminaries versus empty ones. Dioceses ordaining priests versus those who are not. Religious orders that are growing and bursting at the seams with young members versus those who are graying and have not taken in new members in years. The proof is there.

[GCC Catholic]

That’s not the issue. I’m in the generation of which you have made sweeping and erroneous generalizations.

[TraditionalistMommy]

If the proof is there, you should have no trouble producing numerical data, no?

[TraditionalistMommy]

I showed the results of a Zogby poll in April, showing that 2/3 of American Catholics born after 1960 support the ordination of women priests.

I’m not the one making sweeping, erroneous generalizations.

[GCC Catholic]

I can't produce data when I don't know what it is. Yet you have produced no data except some poll results.

You don't have any meaningful data concerning the matter either.

[TraditionalistMommy]

Then why are you still arguing?

[jjm2111]

The Eucharist used to be the center of our Catholic Faith. Throughout the past three decades, many of today's American Catholics have come to ignore this great mystery of our faith. With polls showing that less than 30 percent of Catholics in the United States believe in the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist, it is no wonder that priestly vocations are down and the Catholic divorce rate is so high. The Eucharist, and its proper reverence, is key to the success of both marriage and ordination.

The True Presence has been a long-standing belief of the Church. BTW, I am looking to reproduce an it was my fiancee who convinced me to see things more traditionally, incl. no women priests. This from a woman (and a really good one too. :) )

[GCC Catholic]

Just because American Catholics support it, does not mean
1) that it is prudent
2) that it will work
3) that the daughters of these poorly-catechized Catholics would actually rise to the occasion and become priestesses. (Hint: their sons aren't becoming priests right now)

[TraditionalistMommy]

You’ve stopped making sense now. “I can’t produce data when I don’t know what it is”? That’s pretty revealing!

I haven’t made any extraordinary claims in this thread, only pointed out facts, and supported them with evidence when asked. You have not responded in kind.

I wish you luck in the seminary.