[allmendream]

Eugenics is applying Selective breeding to humans, sort of an un-Natural Selection. No doubt it would work, but what traits would we select for and at what price? Before we breed humans to be “race horses” maybe we should talk to a race horse breeder about all the sacrifices made in a single minded pursuit of speed. Race horses are fast, no doubt about that, but to be fast they have thin legs prone to breaking, and thin skin prone to cracking.

Also what traits would humans be selected for? No doubt the powers that be would like a more docile and obedient populace. Add to this the fact that most Eugenicists were also Socialists and the notion that they wanted to expand State power over reproduction is completely in line with their philosophy.

[D-fendr]

Yes, it's turning natural selection into human selection.

As for "what traits..":

The Nazi Eugenics laws took a tack more toward eliminating undesirable traits, listed as criminal, degenerate, dissident, feeble-minded, homosexual, idle, insane, religious and weak.

Here's a Hitler quote, that references Sparta which you spoke of earlier:

"Sparta must be regarded as the first Völkisch State. The exposure of the sick, weak, deformed children, in short, their destruction, was more decent and in truth a thousand times more humane than the wretched insanity of our day which preserves the most pathological subject, and indeed at any price, and yet takes the life of a hundred thousand healthy children in consequence of birth control or through abortions, in order subsequently to breed a race of degenerates burdened with illnesses."

As you know Hitler was quite influenced by Eugenics in the US, which enjoyed widespread support here. It became an academic discipline with funding from such as the Rockefeller Foundation, the Kellogg Foundation, the Carnegie Institution of Washington, and the Harriman family.

There were three International Conferences, the second, 1921, of which declared: "Eugenics is the self-direction of human evolution". Here's the conference's logo:

From this, you can also see the social and governmental part of the mix. A misguided, misinformed altruism - which is a good descriptive of an honest modern liberal.

It's ironic that Hitler's embrace of Eugenics did the most to kill it - and it had quite a lot of establishment support going for it until then.

Which brings me to my point about it. It's not the science that's at fault. It is science unguided by higher truth, in this case that all life is sacred. This truth comes from outside science.

What should be opposed is not evolution, but evolution elevated to a higher truth and values - which are impossible to determine by science alone.

Evolution defenders accuse their adversaries of bringing religion into science; howevever, the converse is also true.

The first step to a healthy debate is to realize this, recognize it where it occurs, and respect the knowledge of both science and religion - in their proper spheres.

My apologies for the length of this. And thank you for your reply.