John Henry Cardinal Newman to be beatified

CNA ^ | April 23, 2008

[NYer]

Cardinal John Henry Newman

Vatican City, Apr 23, 2008 / 03:12 am (CNA).- The Vatican has approved the beatification of Cardinal John Henry Newman, the English convert and theologian who has had immense influence upon English-speaking Catholicism, the Birmingham Mail reports.

John Henry Newman was born in 1801.  As an Anglican priest, he led the Oxford Movement that sought to return the Church of England to its Catholic roots.  His conversion to Catholicism in 1845 rocked Victorian England.  After becoming an Oratorian priest, he was involved in the establishment of the Birmingham Oratory. 

He died in 1890 and is buried at the oratory country house Rednall Hill.

The Catholic Church has accepted as miraculous the cure of an American deacon’s crippling spinal disorder.  The deacon, Jack Sullivan of Marshfield, Massachusetts, prayed for John Henry Newman’s intercession.

At his beatification ceremony later this year, John Henry Newman will receive the title “Blessed.”  He will need one more recognized miracle to be canonized. 

The case of a 17-year-old New Hampshire boy who survived serious head injuries from a car crash is being investigated as a possible second miracle.

[deuteronlmy232]

What if you already have the title “blessed” or “saint?”

I don't understand your question? Unless you are asking, "What if you are already really Born Again and are a Blessed Saint?"

[deuteronlmy232]

And we’re all happy for you, too.

Why thank you tax chick, I am grateful.

[deuteronlmy232]

You're missing the point. Who makes it possible for you to know Jesus's word? How do you know about the Crucifixion and Resurrection? It isn't through Tacitus or Josephus, though they mention Jesus in passing. It's through Scripture -- which was collected, reviewed, and approved by the Church, out of the hundreds of quasi-Christian "scriptures" circulating in the Mediterranean world in the century after the death of Christ. You can't reject the Church and not reject her work on behalf of her Head. Which is the only way you know Him.

No, sorry but it's through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. You see, God helps you understand His book, if you are first and foremost His and second you ask His help.

[AnAmericanMother]

But you wouldn't have the Book if it wasn't for the Catholic church!

Look, there were several hundred books circulating in the eastern Mediterranean in the centuries after Christ's ministry. Some of them were Gnostic, some heretical, some complete fantasy.

The Church (primarily St. Jerome, but many others) reviewed all this material and decided what was true and right, and declared what would become the Bible.

So you can't reject the work of the Holy Spirit through the Church in establishing the Canon of the Bible, because the Church MADE what you claim is your ultimate authority. By rejecting her, you reject the work of the Holy Spirit, upon which you claim to rely.

[Tax-chick]

You’re welcome. I’m happy for anyone who has a sincere Christian faith!

[thefrankbaum]

You see, God helps you understand His book, if you are first and foremost His and second you ask His help.

Okay, I always get very curious when I see this line. If you don't mind, would you answer this question? Apologies to Avicenna or Averroes, who I think I've stolen this from.

Mr. X is on a deserted island. As far back as he can remember, he has always been on this island - he somehow knows English. He has no knowledge of the world beyond his island. He is a kind man, who sincerely seeks truth. One day, a crate washes up on the beach. Inside, it is full of books. Each book has no writing on its cover, and all are bound with the exact same leather. Each book of the Bible is inside, individually bound, including the keuterocanonical books. Also inside are the Infancy Gospel of Jesus, the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Mary, the Gospel of Judas, the Apocalypse of Peter, Plato's Republic, Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics, the Koran, the Hadiths, some of the Vedas...and more!

Just to be clear, is it your contention that the Holy Spirit will lead Mr. X to pull only the Books of the Bible out of that crate, not including the Deuterocanonical books, if he is sincere in his search for truth?

[deuteronlmy232]

If you give me a hypothetical that can be real I will answer, but to ask a question based upon your contentions is both demeaning and insulting to my intelligence.

Jesus, not the Pope, not an individual, but Jesus, God, the Creator of the universes said: "Unless you are born again you will go to the lake of fire." John 3:3b.

You can argue till you are blue in the face or till the instant you are facing eternity, but understand this; your eternity, your salvation, is your responsibility. You pick your path based upon whatever you would like to use as facts. I have picked mine by putting my belief and faith in the Holy Word of God and His inerrant word.

[deuteronlmy232]

But you wouldn't have the Book if it wasn't for the Catholic church!

The Catholic church yes, but not the Roman Catholic church. There is a huge difference. Fundamental Bible believing Born Again Christians who are members of the church of Philadelphia, as defined and identified in Revelation chapter three are members of the Catholic Church, but are not members of the Roman Catholic church.

[thefrankbaum]

I was not trying to be demeaning or insult your intelligence. I'm a little confused when you ask me for "a hypothetical that can be real" - but so be it.

Since AnAmericanMother and I were attempting to argue the same point, I want to comment on your response to her as well. First, the Roman Catholic Church is absolutely a subset of the Catholic Church - you'll find no disagreement from us there. There are plenty of Eastern Catholic Churches as well - the definition of Catholic we use (I am assuming you don't) includes all Churches in communion with the See of Peter. Yes, the Roman Church is the largest, but it is not the only.

If you are claiming, and I may be wrong, that the Holy Spirit gave the Bible to the "invisible" "catholic" Church, i.e. the group of all believers in Christ, and that is where canon stems from, I have a follow-up question. Do you believe the Deuterocanonical books are inspired Scripture? If not, why do the world's 1.15 billion Catholics believe it is, certainly a majority of Christians - has the Holy Spirit led them into error?

I am sincerely curious as to your answers - I've got hundreds more questions for you, but I don't want to ask them all at once. In regards to my salvation, I struggle every day. I do know I was saved from Original Sin by my Baptism and I've followed Jesus' command and eaten His Body. I hope I get to Heaven, but I know I'm not there yet.

[thefrankbaum]

And, actually, if you don’t mind, I have one more question. Do you believe American Indians, living in 200 AD, are cursed to Hell? Despite the fact there was no possible way for them to hear the Gospel?

[deuteronlmy232]

And, actually, if you don’t mind, I have one more question. Do you believe American Indians, living in 200 AD, are cursed to Hell? Despite the fact there was no possible way for them to hear the Gospel?

Let me answer your question with a question. What does Jesus and the Bible say regarding that very subject. While not American Indians, the subject is discussed and answered in Romans.

[AnAmericanMother]

But they were in communion with Rome.

There are many churches that are not "Roman Catholic" but nevertheless Catholic, i.e. acknowledge the successor of Peter as their head.

[AnAmericanMother]

. . . I should read the whole thread before posting, I should read the whole thread before posting, I should read the whole thread before posting . . .

. . . . what you said! . . . .

[deuteronlmy232]

There are many churches that are not "Roman Catholic" but nevertheless Catholic, i.e. acknowledge the successor of Peter as their head.

Peter was not the head of the church, James the half brother of Jesus was.

[AnAmericanMother]

James was the first Bishop of Jerusalem. So naturally he led the Council of Jerusalem mentioned in Acts. But as he was associated with the Jewish-observant party, and Paul with the Gentile party, Peter was the mediator (who after all received the Vision at Joppa.)

"If anyone should say, 'Why then was it James who received the See of Jerusalem?' I should reply that he [Christ] made Peter the teacher not of that See, but of the world." - St. John Chrysostom.

[deuteronlmy232]

You use the terms “See of Jerusalem” and “Holy See”, what is the “See of Jerusalem” and “Holy See”?

[AnAmericanMother]

"See" is simply an older English translation of the Latin "sedes" or seat. The Greek is kaqedra, meaning the same thing, from which we get "cathedral". It's the chair of office of the bishop - or the elder's chair, if you prefer. By the process of metonymy it has come to mean the authority of the bishop.

[deuteronlmy232]

Ah, I see, no pun intened, but where would you find such a thing in the Bible? You see, one of the many thihgs that seperate Roman Catholics from Born Again Christians is the pomp. ceremony and traditions of the Roman Catholic church that fall outside the Bible.

Have you ever read what Jesus said about putting traditions ahead of the Word of God in Mark Chapter Seven?

[AnAmericanMother]

But the tradition of a bishop and that bishop having authority over a see dates from the very earliest years of the Church -- and you can see it happening in Acts.

And since the bishops meeting in conference actually determined what would fall outside the Bible and what would fall inside the Bible, it's a circular reasoning. If the bishops had authority to establish the Bible (which is nowhere mentioned in the Bible, of course) they had authority to establish traditions in the Church.

In Mark, the Pharisees' traditions were established by men; but the problem they had was keeping the letter without the spirit - keeping the technical aspects of the law but without its justice - "This people with the lips doth honor Me, and their heart is far from Me."

The Holy Spirit guided the Church Fathers/elders/bishops (the presbuterous - and that word does appear in the Bible) in preserving the Word of God and compiling it in what we call the Bible, rejecting many, many books which were contemporaneous with but not the word of God. The Holy Spirit also guides the Church in resolving problems of faith and morals that arise from time to time (the various early heresies and their offshoots) and, as Christ promised, will see that the gates of hell do not prevail against His church.

So what you call 'traditions' that 'fall outside the Bible' are led by the Holy Spirit. St. Paul even mentions some of them in 2nd Thessalonians 2:15 - "brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." The Greek is dia logou - "by word of mouth".

[deuteronlmy232]

If you can't build your case using the Word of God instead of the words and traditions of men, please stop.

The traditions of your religion are of no interest to me, I have chosen to follow He who shed His blood for me not those who would have me shed my blood for their comfort and power.