Aide: Pope Looking for Ecumenical Honesty

ZNA ^ | 4/20/2008

[markomalley]

Aide: Pope Looking for Ecumenical Honesty

Says Benedict XVI Not Satisfied With "Well Wishing"

NEW YORK, APRIL 20, 2008 (Zenit.org).- Benedict XVI is looking for a "commitment of honesty" from Christians engaged in ecumenical dialogue, according to a Vatican aide.

Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, director of the Vatican press office, said this Saturday in comments to the press on the address the Pope gave to ecumenical leaders Friday evening.

The meeting of over 300 religious leaders involved in ecumenical dialogue gathered at St. Joseph's Parish in Manhattan. According to organizers, some 250 represented various Protestant churches, 50 were Orthodox leaders and 50 were Catholics.

Father Lombardi said the Pope wants "to go to the foundations," "to move all Christians of every community to reflect on the importance of seeking the truth together," without being satisfied with "a certain 'well wishing,' let us say, a certain generic goodwill, but to seek out that which is our duty to revealed truth."

What the Pontiff is promoting, he added, is therefore "a commitment of honesty, of honesty and reflection in which the true Christian faith is brought to light [...] by seeking the essential elements of the profession of faith that Scripture and Tradition uphold and on the basis of which, then, we must come together."

Challenges

In his address, Benedict XVI outlined various challenges facing the globalized community, which he said today is "poised between two poles."

He commented that on one hand "there is a growing sense of interconnectedness and interdependency between peoples even when -- geographically and culturally speaking -- they are far apart," but on the other hand "we cannot deny that the rapid changes occurring in our world also present some disturbing signs of fragmentation and a retreat into individualism."

The Pope added that using new communication technology can often cause greater isolation, and that people are yearning for "more authentic forms of community."

Additionally, the Pontiff highlighted the spread of a secularist ideology that "undermines or even rejects transcendent truth."

"The very possibility of divine revelation, and therefore of Christian faith," he added, "is often placed into question by cultural trends widely present in academia, the mass media and public debate."

"For these reasons," the Holy Father urged, "a faithful witness to the Gospel is as urgent as ever. Christians are challenged to give a clear account of the hope that they hold."

Division

Benedict XVI said the division among Christians causes confusion among non-Christians regarding the authentic message of the Gospel, "just at the time when the world is losing its bearings and needs a persuasive common witness to the saving power of the Gospel."

The Pope recalled the "unwavering conviction of the early Christian community that its unity was both caused by, and is reflective of, the unity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This, in turn, suggests that the internal cohesion of believers was based on the sound integrity of their doctrinal confession."

"My dear friends," continued the Holy Father, "the power of the kerygma has lost none of its internal dynamism. Yet we must ask ourselves whether its full force has not been attenuated by a relativistic approach to Christian doctrine similar to that found in secular ideologies, which, in alleging that science alone is 'objective,' relegate religion entirely to the subjective sphere of individual feeling.

"Scientific discoveries, and their application through human ingenuity, undoubtedly offer new possibilities for the betterment of humankind. This does not mean, however, that the 'knowable' is limited to the empirically verifiable, nor religion restricted to the shifting realm of 'personal experience.'"

The Pontiff called this line of reasoning "faulty," and that accepting it would lead to more division and a loss of the "importance of doctrinal content for Christian living."

Benedict XVI said that even within the ecumenical movement, some are "reluctant to assert the role of doctrine for fear that it would only exacerbate rather than heal the wounds of division."

"Yet a clear, convincing testimony to the salvation wrought for us in Christ Jesus has to be based upon the notion of normative apostolic teaching," he asserted, "a teaching which indeed underlies the inspired word of God and sustains the sacramental life of Christians today."

"Only by 'holding fast' to sound teaching," added the Pope, "will we be able to respond to the challenges that confront us in an evolving world. Only in this way will we give unambiguous testimony to the truth of the Gospel and its moral teaching."

[CTrent1564]

The Sacred Scriptures in the NT refer to thefact that Jesus rose from the dead on “the first day of week” So, the early Church would celebrate the “Lord’s Day” since the OT sabbath had passed away, and thus the day of Christ’s resurrection on Sunday became the day of Christian Liturgy and Worship (Mark 16:9, see also Mark 16:2 and Luke 24:1).

In St. Paul’s letter to the Corinthians (c.f. 1 Cor 16:2), we see St. Paul stating “On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come.”

Finally, in the book of Revelation, we see the Apostle John’s vision of Heavenly Liturgy/Worship happens of the “Lord’s day” (c.f. Rev 1: 10).

The Council of Nicea did formalize when Easter should be calculated, but this dispute had been goin on as early as the 2nd century as the writings of St. Irenaues (ca 170-175 AD) tell us during the disputes between the Bishop of Rome (Victor) and certain Eastern Churches who were celebrating Easter at time not in comformity withe Rome and the rest of the Church.

In summary, you are way off base.

[JustMytwocents70]

elevating the mother of the Lord to the status of virtually the Fourth Person of the Trinity.

That's funny. I never ever refered to Mary in the holy trinity. Where did you get that one at? Also - I am still waiting to hear where in the Bible Sola Scriptura is located?

[Uri’el-2012]

The Sacred Scriptures in the NT refer to thefact that Jesus rose from the dead on “the first day of week” So, the early Church would celebrate the “Lord’s Day” since the OT sabbath had passed away, and thus the day of Christ’s resurrection on Sunday became the day of Christian Liturgy and Worship (Mark 16:9, see also Mark 16:2 and Luke 24:1).

In St. Paul’s letter to the Corinthians (c.f. 1 Cor 16:2), we see St. Paul stating “On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come.”

Finally, in the book of Revelation, we see the Apostle John’s vision of Heavenly Liturgy/Worship happens of the “Lord’s day” (c.f. Rev 1: 10).

The Council of Nicea did formalize when Easter should be calculated, but this dispute had been goin on as early as the 2nd century as the writings of St. Irenaues (ca 170-175 AD) tell us during the disputes between the Bishop of Rome (Victor) and certain Eastern Churches who were celebrating Easter at time not in comformity withe Rome and the rest of the Church.

In summary, you are way off base.

41 posted on April 21, 2008 11:36:20 AM MDT by CTrent1564

SORRY:

Mark 16:9 The English translation "Upon the first day of the week"
says in the Greek, “On one of the Sabbaths.”

There is a YHvH commanded feast called the "Feast of First Fruits"
which occurs on the day following the Shabbat following Passover.

YHvH commanded Shabbat has not passed away.

NAsbU Matthew 5:18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away,
not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Paul was collecting money for the congregation in
Jerusalem after the Shabbat had ended

John was a keeper of Pesach and Shabbat( The day of YHvH's rest).

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai

[Petronski]

I never ever referred to Mary in the holy trinity. Where did you get that one at?

It's made up out of whole cloth, part of The Game:

Catholic: We believe this.

Catholic-hater: Oh no you do not believe that, you believe what I say you believe. Don't deny it!

Catholic: But we know what we--

Catholic-hater: Silence, papist!

[lastchance]

I really have no time to answer a statement that is so full of ignorance of both secular and church history. Maybe someone else has the energy.

But I do have a question. Do you believe Jesus rose from the dead? And did you know that Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Rite and many Latin Rite Catholics call Easter Pasch?

[trisham]

part of The Game

******************

Except that it really isn't a game, is it? Since we Papists have no chance of "winning"? Just today I saw a post that for the millionth time asked if Catholics don't read the Bible.

[Petronski]

No one said The Game was fair.

[JustMytwocents70]

I think you are severely confused about Protestantism, as almost no Protestant churches "want to change the doctrine of the Trinity". Certainly not any mainstream denomination.

Except of course those mainline protestant denimonations that cater to the feminists who insist that the trinity be refered to as "Creator, redeemor and sanctifier".

[trisham]

LOL! I guess they really couldn’t, could they?

[Petronski]

Just today I saw a post that for the millionth time asked if Catholics don't read the Bible.

All 73 books.

[CTrent1564]

Your writing in the last post lacks any coherence and organization. The early Church worshiped on “the First day of the week/Lord’s day”, which was Sunday. The constant early witness of the Early Church Fathers and other Patristic sources confirms this. For example,

The Didache states:

But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned” (Didache 14 [A.D. 70-80]).

St. Ignatius of Antioch writes:

[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e., Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).

St. Justin Martyr writes:

[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us—I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21 [A.D. 155]).

These are early witnesses to Christians celebrating the Liturgy on Sunday. St. Justin, in writing to the Roman emperor states gives an early account of a Catholic Liturgy. The Catechism of the Catholic Church quotes it in its entirerity (CCC para. 1345) and provides some commentary:

CCC: 1345 As early as the second century we have the witness of St. Justin Martyr for the basic lines of the order of the Eucharistic celebration. They have stayed the same until our own day for all the great liturgical families. St. Justin wrote to the pagan emperor Antoninus Pius (138-161) around the year 155, explaining what Christians did:

On the day we call the day of the sun, all who dwell in the city or country gather in the same place.
The memoirs of the apostles and the writings of the prophets are read, as much as time permits.

When the reader has finished, he who presides over those gathered admonishes and challenges them to imitate these beautiful things.

Then we all rise together and offer prayers* for ourselves . . .and for all others, wherever they may be, so that we may be found righteous by our life and actions, and faithful to the commandments, so as to obtain eternal salvation.

When the prayers are concluded we exchange the kiss.

Then someone brings bread and a cup of water and wine mixed together to him who presides over the brethren.

He takes them and offers praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and for a considerable time he gives thanks (in Greek: eucharistian) that we have been judged worthy of these gifts.

When he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all present give voice to an acclamation by saying: ‘Amen.’

When he who presides has given thanks and the people have responded, those whom we call deacons give to those present the “eucharisted” bread, wine and water and take them to those who are absent.

In summary, the Apostolic Tradition affirms that the day of Christ’s resurrection was the day the early Christian community gathered to celebrate the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

Regards

[lastchance]

Sorry about my other post. I had just finished a rather contentious and aggravating conversation with the Post Office and I am afraid you caught the brunt of my frustration.

But really I am not able to take the time to go through a step by step refute of your premise. So perhaps someone else will take it up.

[Uri’el-2012]

Your writing in the last post lacks any coherence and organization. The early Church worshiped on “the First day of the week/Lord’s day”, which was Sunday. The constant early witness of the Early Church Fathers and other Patristic sources confirms this. For example,

The Didache states: ............

St. Ignatius of Antioch writes: .............

St. Justin Martyr writes: ..............

St. Justin, ..........

CCC: 1345 ...........

Regards

51 posted on April 21, 2008 12:25:51 PM MDT by CTrent1564

So you submit to man-made Traditions and reject the Holy Word of Elohim.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai

[Campion]

So you submit to man-made Traditions

The "man-made traditions" recorded by those who knew the Apostles personally, in many cases.

reject the Holy Word of Elohim

You evidently reject the "Holy Word of Elohim" recorded in Colossians 2:16-17.

[Uri’el-2012]

You evidently reject the "Holy Word of Elohim" recorded in Colossians 2:16-17.

see

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1996794/posts?page=772#772

b'shem Yah'shua

[Uri’el-2012]

Thanks for the post ping

up one

[roamer_1]

by seeking the essential elements of the profession of faith that Scripture and Tradition upholds and on the basis of which, then, we must come together."

[big'ol_freeper]

Here is intellectual honesty. The Catholic Church is right and everyone else is wrong. That goes with having the Holy Spirit guide and protect.

[roamer_1]

Tradition is not a millstone which hangs around our necks or something invented by man to keep us from knowing God. It is a light which illumines the path of truth and wisdom.

Not meaning to offend, nor am I declaring similarity, but I am quite certain the Pharisees and Sadducees running the temple in Jesus' day said much the same thing.

No tradition, Catholic, Protestant, or otherwise can be above scrutiny, and no tradition can have the weight of Scripture, as there must be a final arbiter, and that thing we use to judge all things is the Holy Word.

[CTrent1564]

No, I accept that Christ the word made flesh, found a Church, and that the Apostles received from him the Apostolic faith and handed in on to the early Church Fathers who defended Christian orthodoxy from Gnostic Heretics such as the Docetist, Marcions, etc, and other heretics such as the Modalist/Sabellianism, Montanist, Arians, Pelegians, Nestorians, Monophysites,etc

I summary, I believe in all that Christ has revealed to his Church and what is professed in the early Creeds of the Chuch (Apostles and Nicene). Rejection of those, from my orthodox Catholic perspective, makes one a heretic, assuming you claim to be of some type of Protestant Christian tradition, as it is obvious you are neither Catholic in communion with Rome, Eastern Orthodox, or a member of an historic Protestant Confession (e.g., Lutheran-Augsburg, Reformed-Westminister, Anglican-Book of Common Prayer and Anglican 39 articles of faith), all of which have historically recognized the early Creeds.

Good day to you. I am done