Replies

> But can you see how it blows away discussion of Freemasonry on this topic.

I can — it is very hard for people to discuss what may be a perceived World Conspiracy or a perceived Order for Evil when it is, in actuality, a very de-centralized, highly-democratic, quite-autonomous collection of individuals, loosely organized in accordance with generally-accepted broad principles.

It could be said with historical accuracy and considerable justification that The United States of America was the ultimate manifestation of the Freemason’s work. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights were crafted by Freemasons along Freemasonic Principles and espousing Freemasonic Values: indeed, all of the things that drive highly-centralized despotic governments crazy.

> If you or anyone says, “It’s not a religion,” you don’t speak for Freemasonry, they don’t speak for Freemasonry - we have an answer about Freemasonry that doesn’t speak for Freemasonry. A quandary here..

...except that one thing that all Freemasons will agree to is that Freemasonry is neither a religion nor is it a political movement. Hence the reason why religion and politics are never discussed in Lodge. That is why Jew can meet with Catholic with Protestant with Sikh with Muslim with Hindoo with Rastafarian with Conservative with Liberal with (I guess) Communist with (I guess) Anarchist within Lodge.

It is true that for some Freemasons, Freemasonry fills the gap that would otherwise be filled by an organized religion. For others (like me) it is a very useful spiritual supplement to my Christian Faith. For others, it is little more than a Self Improvement system like an ancient form of Tony Robbins. And for some it is merely a quaint antiquarian pursuit. And for others it is mostly a social pursuit.

Freemasonry is many things to many men. The common themes are:

1) men
2) good upright law-abiding Character
3) belief in God
4) system of Morality, using the ancient stone mason’s craft as an allegory to building personal Character and moral behavior
5) 21 years or older, or 18 if you are a “Lewis” (Freemason’s son)
6) use of verbal history, ritual, secrets, and tradition to communicate the system of morality
7) closed to members-only

> Along with not being able to discuss the oaths and rituals, then.. I don’t know how the two sides discuss, resolve misconceptions, etc..

A good start is for the “cult” and “conspiracy” thing to “go away” from the discussion.

Freemasons keep Secrets because being trustworthy and keeping promises are pivotal requirements to building a Moral and upright character. As is a belief in God.

If our Oaths and Secrets are communicated to and discussed openly with other non-Masons then they are no longer “Secrets” to be “kept”, and that rather undermines the whole point. There is no real way around that.

It really is not too much different in this respect to Catholicism:

For example, the methodology that the Cardinals use to select your next Pope is secret, as are the ballots, as is any discussion during the Conclave. Only Cardinals are allowed inside the room, and only Cardinals are privy to what goes on in there.

We can speculate, and we can arrive at all kinds of wild conclusions — all for nought. The methodology for selecting the next Pope is secret. We know that ballots are taken, and that is about it. The next thing anyone knows is either grey or white smoke. How do we know they picked the right guy?

Or the methodology for selecting the next Saint. From an outside observer’s viewpoint the process appears somewhat arbitrary if not altogether dodgy. No doubt there is some rigor in it all, but it is not evident to outsiders. How do we know that Soul is really in Heaven, and not still in Purgatory, or (worse yet) somewhere much hotter?

Or the methodology that goes behind Papal Bulls: we all know that the Pope is a mere mortal — a very special mortal — but mortal all the same. He is born, and eventually he dies. So how is it that he can pronounce the Word of God, and that becomes Holy Writ, and thus a Sin to violate?

Or the Sacrements and Trans-substantiation and the Holy Trinity... how do they work? Baffling to outsiders.

Not everything can be discussed or readily understood by those who are not Catholics. And, as I have seen on other threads, when attempts to do so are made, inevitably someone leaps in and starts bashing Catholic doctrines as being “false” merely because they are difficult to discuss with non-Catholics. Not overly helpful to the process of understanding.

So it is an interesting point you raise, and thanks for raising it.

*DieHard*