To: DieHard the Hunter
So lets search out this particular matter, then: I am going to suggest that Christ did not issue a commandment here, but rather a divine ideal, when it came to swearing oaths.
Here is what this particular scripture says:
"Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." (Matthew 5:33-37)
As we can see, it is a command. Christ is putting forth a moral imperative and one that should be followed. Contextually, it was common for those in Israel to swear by this or that. This trivialized the thing they were swearing by and often was a case of using God's name in vain. Many in history have obeyed this command. Sir Isaac Newton, for example didn't place an oath of office on the teachers at Trinity college. Quakers and Baptists refused to take an oath of allegiance to the king of England - though some would declare their loyalty. Social norm does not soften biblical command. Do I pledge allegiance to the flag? Yes, I do. But only so far as she is under God. I can not ally myself with a nation that would disdain its maker or a government that would overrule the inalienable rights given to us by our creator. Am I a loyal American? You betcha. But I'm a more loyal Christian.
Ideally, the Servant of Christs behaviors and deportment should be so circumspect, his conduct so honest and honorable, and his ways so upright and reliable that there should be no need for elaborate oaths in order for his word to be acceptable by all. Thus, when he says yes it means yes, and when he says no, it means no. No further assurances are needed.
Agreed. Christian's should model Christ's behavior.
If that is so, then it entirely explains that particular passage, and also does not contravene the common practise of taking oaths, as did Ruth, David, Solomon and many others.
Some biblical characters took an oath to God Himself. Paul is one such individual who apparently took a Nazarite vow at one point. Hannah swore to the Lord in the Old Testament. None of these were done frivolously and they paid their oath to the Lord. Such an oath is not what Jesus is speaking of since He is referring to swearing by this or that not to God Himself. Further, God swears by Himself. Thus, in the context of all of Scripture-oaths are allowable to God but the commandment of Christ forbids them elsewhere.
Transparency does not necessitate full disclosure. And anyway, you do not have the right to Transparency, nor the right to know. If you did, it would be in your Constitution. It isnt, so you dont. Simple as that.
Then you aren't transparent. A lower degree Mason does not know or have exposure to the "secrets" of the higher degree. They are cloaked.
That said, I think that any fair reading of our discourse would reveal that I have bent over backwards to be forthright with you, and to give you sensible answers and responses. In so doing I have gone the extra mile: most people would not have bothered.
Sorry. You haven't told me much of anything other than to say I'm ignorant and shouldn't be asking questions because I'm a non Mason. I will commend you for the improvement in tone though.
Except, of course, that Pike is not one of our leaders and is, as I keep saying, just another Freemason with just another set of opinions to which he is entitled.
Oh Poppycock! You are asking us to believe that a Supreme Commander of your organization is not a leader? You may disavow what he has to say, but he most certainly was a leader for over 3 decades. Somebody followed him!
I have no need nor no intention of refuting what he has written. Im not going to argue his case, for or against: I have no horse in his race, no stake in his game. To me his view is interesting but not relevant. It is thus pointless for me to try to refute what he has written. Dont you get it yet?
Yes, I get it. Pike is a problem for Masons so you want to sweep him under the rug. You can't say he was a liar, because he wasn't. He spoke what was taught at the time. You can't confirm anything he said because that might give away a secret or two. So, you choose not to deal with him. You compare him to Joseph Smith and true Christianity. By that, you must be saying he was heterodox in his Masonic belief - but then again, you aren't exactly saying that. Instead, you just say we're ignorant and expect us to go away. Well, sorry. We won't, but I'll leave you to your choice not to deal with Pike anyway.
153 posted on
04/07/2008 8:06:00 PM PDT by
Blogger
(His love, not mine, the resting place, His truth, not mine, the tie.- Horatius Bonar)
To: Blogger
> Sir Isaac Newton, for example didn’t place an oath of office on the teachers at Trinity college.
Sir Isaac Newton the Freemason, you mean.
> Oh Poppycock! You are asking us to believe that a Supreme Commander of your organization is not a leader?
Whatever...
> Yes, I get it. Pike is a problem for Masons so you want to sweep him under the rug.
Whatever...
You Conspiracy Theorists are tiresome, and will not be persuaded that your pet conspiracy theory holds no water. Fine — this has been a colossal waste of everyone’s time, and your Conspiracy Theory has once again been validated in your own mind.
Good.
You are clearly more comfortable looking for Freemasons skulking around causing mischief than accepting a simple, uncomplicated set of facts, even when patiently laid out for you will full explanations.
Fine.
You would prefer to see evil machinations happening behind every closed door, and feel vindicated in making shrill accusations of “cult! cult!” merely because the doors to a private Secret Society is closed to non-members like yourself, and have been for many centuries and will be for many more centuries to come.
That’s alright.
You prefer to assert that Christians have no business in Freemasonry, despite many good Christians — and indeed men of goodwill of most world religions — find fraternity and value within our organization, one that has served both Crown and the United States of America with distinction and honor, and one that has preserved the good social mores, values and structure throughout the ages, preferring to place sinister complexions on things that you do not understand, and seeking evidence in the most improbable places for wrongdoing where none exists.
OK, that is your prerogative. That is, after all, what Conspiracy Theorists are good at.
We are entitled to our privacy and to restrict admission and information to Members-Only, much like any club. Non-club members like you are free to whinge and complain about that as much as they like: you are probably better off not being members as this would spoil your fun.
I suppose next you’ll be investigating the Illuminati and the Rosicrucians. And what about the Knights Templar? Or, for that matter, Opus Dei? Here’s a hint: all of us Secret Society Conspirators meet on the third full moon of every year at Stonehenge to plot the next twelve month’s worth of mischief, and to organize the New World Order. You will be able to tell us apart from the Druids and Wiccans and other folk wearing hooded robes because we’ll be the ones swearing blood-curdling oaths.
Be careful not to get caught watching our Rituals, tho’! Or you might get bar-coded on your forehead or on your hand, and micro-chip implanted and your DNA cataloged. You have been warned...!
154 posted on
04/07/2008 8:54:29 PM PDT by
DieHard the Hunter
(Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fà g am bealach.)
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