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To: roamer_1
Just curious as to your interpretation of Genesis, chapter 3, verses 14-15 (or the common Protestant interpretation).

Who do you think God is referring to when He uses the term "woman," where in my translation (New American Bible) He says to the serpent, "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel."

Enmity is an interesting word. Its definition is as follows: "Enmity is hatred such as might be felt for an enemy: the wartime enmity of the two nations." In other words, complete and total opposition to one another.

The passage cannot be referring to Eve; she had just sinned and was not in complete and total opposition to the serpent (Devil). In Catholic teaching, the woman who would have enmity between herself and the serpent must be without sin.

It is not extra-Biblical from a Catholic perspective, therefore, to believe that the Blessed Virgin Mary was conceived immaculately without sin. It is also why in Catholic artwork she is sometimes pictured with a serpent near her feet:



I've always wondered, therefore, what the Protestant interpretation of Genesis 3 and the identity of the "woman" if they do not believe these things about Mary. Perhaps the KJV or its derivatives do not use the term "enmity." I've never owned a KJV myself or even bothered to look it up in one at the bookstore to see what Genesis 3 looks like in one of them.
185 posted on 04/05/2008 4:09:11 AM PDT by BaBaStooey ("Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will give you light." Ephesians 5:14)
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To: BaBaStooey
I've always wondered, therefore, what the Protestant interpretation of Genesis 3 and the identity of the "woman" if they do not believe these things about Mary. Perhaps the KJV or its derivatives do not use the term "enmity." I've never owned a KJV myself or even bothered to look it up in one at the bookstore to see what Genesis 3 looks like in one of them.

It certainly shows...

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Quite a different picture compared to the one you posted...But look at the next verse:

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Still think the woman is Mary???

188 posted on 04/05/2008 6:17:50 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: BaBaStooey
Perhaps the KJV or its derivatives do not use the term "enmity." I've never owned a KJV myself or even bothered to look it up in one at the bookstore to see what Genesis 3 looks like in one of them.

For your convenience:

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
(e-Sword: KJV)

And might I suggest e-Sword? It is a free and very comprehensive Bible study software suite with many Bible translations, concordances, commentaries, dictionaries and etc. It certainly has been an aid for me, and makes it quite easy to find and post electronically.

Who do you think God is referring to when He uses the term "woman," [...] He says to the serpent, "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel."

In the first place, I would have to note that the text has meaning in it's simplest form, that is to say, that it need not mean anything more than it does on it's face.

Man, and particularly women, have no love for snakes, and are quite happy to dispatch them (bruise head). Snakes are certainly known to strike the heel, or at least the lower leg. Therein the prophetic (God says, "I will") nature of this passage obviously can be considered to have been already fulfilled, and we need not go any farther.

One must also consider prophecy 'in-situ', or within the context of the larger passage, and therefore one is obliged to consider the following verses, Genesis 3:16-17, wherein the woman and Adam are also cursed, as was the serpent in the verse of interest. In it's context, the woman seems to be Eve, as representing all women.

Now, that all being said, this prophecy is widely considered to be the proto-evangelist event. Even before the curse is laid upon Adam and Eve, the Gospel is pronounced, in that the Descendant of woman would vanquish the Serpent. See this rather lengthy Commentary by C.H. Spurgeon I can accept that much of the prophetic word being present, in that it fits thematically with the great breadth of the Prophecy, and is plainly in unison with the Great Plan of God.

Enmity is an interesting word. Its definition is as follows: "Enmity is hatred such as might be felt for an enemy: the wartime enmity of the two nations." In other words, complete and total opposition to one another.

'Enmity' can certainly, and simply mean 'hatred'.

The passage cannot be referring to Eve; she had just sinned and was not in complete and total opposition to the serpent (Devil).

I must disagree. "And I will put enmity..." would suggest the opposition to be placed after the fact. Considering the assumption that Eve is standing as all womankind, receiving the original curse, the enmity can easily be placed upon Eve, and her descendants (male and female) at any time after God's utterance.

In Catholic teaching, the woman who would have enmity between herself and the serpent must be without sin.

That seems to be a leap to me.

It is not extra-Biblical from a Catholic perspective, therefore, to believe that the Blessed Virgin Mary was conceived immaculately without sin. It is also why in Catholic artwork she is sometimes pictured with a serpent near her feet:

So the entirety of 'conceived immaculately without sin' is extrapolated from this single verse?

193 posted on 04/05/2008 4:33:57 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit.)
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