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To: irishtenor
Yes words mean things. So it's fair to say the words "to Godhead" were not written in the post which led to this particular knuckle of disagreement.

The actual words were:

On the contrary, referring to Mary as "Mother of God" elevates Jesus Christ.
(here.)

No mention of elevating Him to Godhead.

At no extra charge I will, no doubt needlessly, say what I think they meant after saying that they did NOT mean that Mary elevated Jesus to Godhead.

They were I think a Reader's Digest summary of the Nestorian Controversy which really pertains to the nature and, so to speak, "timing" of the union of Divine and human natures in Jesus. The title Theotokos was debated on Christological grounds, not on Marian grounds simpliciter.

Likewise in the version of the Chalcedonian Definition which I just happen to have right here, uh, somewhere, under the protein bar wrappers, move the Brigade Quartermasters catalogue, ah! Here it is ...

; ... as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, The God-Bearer; one and the same Christ, ....
The question is, what WAS that in Mary's womb, to which the intrauterine John the Baptist responded? Or, in other words, how shall we think and talk about the union of natures in Christ? If from conception it was one Person with two natures, then, well, theotokos seems to apply. We would say, with Ephesus and Chalcedon, that the notion that the Divine nature was somehow infused into Jesus or He was "adopted" would imply a lower VIEW or OPINION of Him than the notion that from the git-go He was God and man. Therefore, the implication is that acknowledging the title "theotokos" implies an "Elevated" notion of what Jesus is.

it is an unfortunate use of language that ww speak of elevating X when we mean adopting a "higher" concept of X. It is our thoughts that are elevated.

The question of intercession of saints I'd prefer to leave until later. One bloody (adjective of quality, not cussing) dispute at a time ...

And peace to you.

In related news, the Presbyterian John MacQuarrie once wrote a little essay justifying the translation of Theotokos as "mother of God". Please don't ask me to find it.

265 posted on 04/03/2008 11:16:22 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
MD, I think you may be after the wrong FRiend. Irish was, I think, addressing Dr. E's response to my post about the Council of Ephesus.
288 posted on 04/03/2008 11:32:43 AM PDT by al_c (Avoid the consequences of erudite vernacular utilized irrespective of necessity)
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