Book on Mary turns runaway youngster immersed in drugs and crime into a priest

Visions of Jesus ^ | February 2004

[fortheDeclaration]

Well, in approximately 67% of the recorded times (that I can remember) that He spoke To her, he addressed her as "Gynai." But in referring to her in John 19:26-27 the Evangelist calls her he meter autou and when Jesus 'gives' her to "the disciple whom He loved" He, Jesus, refers to her as "he meter sou". So we are left with no record of His calling His own mother, "Mother," but He calls her John's mother.

That is correct, He calls her John's mother, He never addresses her by that designation.

He rates all those who follow Him and obey His words as equal in status to His mother, brother and sister.

So, why don't you do the same?

[fortheDeclaration]

I would enter here on this thread where angels fear to tread: Jesus called his mother “woman” because in His culture, it was a term of respect; one could say that its equivalent today would be “Lady”. I’m surprised that this fact of the culture and language use of Jesus’ time isn’t better known and taught among those who read and cherish Sacred Scripture. Also, from the four ways of understanding Scripture (literal, moral, analogical and anagogical), Jesus is letting us know—(those who heard Him in the real moment and those who will hear Him down the corridors of time)-—that there is a new “woman”. This new woman is the one who will counteract the disobedience of the first creature whom God said would be named “woman”. It’s in OUR present day culture that one may use the name “woman” as a term of lesser respect; the opposite was the case in the time, language

I am sure the term was not one of disrespect, however, He did use the term 'mother' when He turned her over to John.

So, the fact that during His ministry He never addresses her as such shows that their relationship had changed.

He made that very clear when He was told that His mother and brothers were seeking Him and He stated that His 'mother and brothers' were those who followed Him.(Matt.12:48-50)

[Running On Empty]

I believe your answer to be a non-sequitur to your original post about Jesus calling his mother “woman”.

Also, it should be very clear to anyone who takes the time to really understand and apply the teachings of Jesus, that His mother was obviously the first to show the way of following Him—from her assent to the message of the angel, and throughout all the “hidden” 30 years of his life with her and Joseph in Nazareth.

Please note that she followed him during his public life as well—including being at Cana; also she was along the Way of the Cross and stood at the foot of the Cross. She was in the Upper Room at Pentecost.

There is no reason whatsoever to downgrade any part of her presence in the public existence of the Lord. One of the Seven Last Words of the Lord from the Cross were to Mary and to John the Beloved. He gave them to each other and in that more-than-symbolic action He gave her to all of us, and all of us to her.

[fortheDeclaration]

I believe your answer to be a non-sequitur to your original post about Jesus calling his mother “woman”. Also, it should be very clear to anyone who takes the time to really understand and apply the teachings of Jesus, that His mother was obviously the first to show the way of following Him—from her assent to the message of the angel, and throughout all the “hidden” 30 years of his life with her and Joseph in Nazareth. Please note that she followed him during his public life as well—including being at Cana; also she was along the Way of the Cross and stood at the foot of the Cross. She was in the Upper Room at Pentecost. There is no reason whatsoever to downgrade any part of her presence in the public existence of the Lord. One of the Seven Last Words of the Lord from the Cross were to Mary and to John the Beloved. He gave them to each other and in that more-than-symbolic action He gave her to all of us, and all of us to her.

No one is 'downgrading' her at all.

The Lord Himself placed all believers equal to her and that is clearly stated in scripture.

Now, on the Cross He acted as a faithful elder son and made sure that his mother was going to be cared for.

That is all that action meant at the cross.

There is not symbolism at all.

Now, you would rather ignore what Christ Himself said about Mary in relationship to other believers (Mk.3).

It is you that is placing Mary above where Christ said she ought to be, and disobeying Mary's own words, 'whatsoever he saith unto you, do it'.

But, you would rather make up your own traditions that have nothing to do with scripture than follow either the words of Christ or Mary.

Christ never said to honor Mary above any one else and the last time we see Mary is in Acts 1, and she is not heard of again in scripture.

The Mary of the Roman Catholic Church is not the Mary of the Bible.

[Running On Empty]

You are presumimg to read my mind when you say I’d “rather ignore what Christ Himself said”. You cannot know what I am “ignoring” about Scripture or what I am understanding from Scripture.

Then you go on to say to me; “you would rather make up your own traditions that have nothing to do with scripture”. Can you read my mind?

Please don’t attempt to determine what I am thinking regarding Scripture. This is a matter of what each of us understands and interprets from Scripture. That we have different understanding is clear. What is not at all certain is that you are an authority over my understanding.

So we have reached an impasse. I am, for the record, glad that I have offered my understanding. Your evaluation of it hasn’t done one thing to change my mind.

[Judith Anne]

I see that my tactic wasn’t entirely successful: the RCC watchdogs are obsessed over the unknown author, avoiding discussion of the points made - which were in answer to a question.

I see no one here who is "obsessed over the unknown author" and I see no one "avoiding discussion of the points made."

There is merit in giving the source, who for all anyone knows may also have said the earth is flat. Credibility goes with the identity. To quote someone and fail to give the source could indicate the quoter is embarrassed about the source, or ashamed of him/her. It could also mean that the person quoted has embargoed using the material elsewhere, and the quoter is concealing that fact.

[Judith Anne]

So, the fact that during His ministry He never addresses her as such shows that their relationship had changed.

We do not now know that, because we were not there at every instance that He addressed His mother, nor has every instance of Him addressing His mother during His ministry been recorded. In other words, you may call your mother one name during your private moments with her, and something else entirely in a public situation. All cultures have instances of that.

[Judith Anne]

That is all that action meant at the cross.

There is not symbolism at all.

That would be your private interpretation. I find it interesting that protestants individually pick and choose which statements are symbolic, which are literal, but seem to deny the same privilege to the Catholic Church.

[Mad Dawg]

He rates all those who follow Him and obey His words as equal in status to His mother, brother and sister.

So, why don't you do the same? Because I have a brain and I use it?

Is this the kind of conversation you want to have? If so, include me out.

[Mad Dawg]

From the site:

One place where the Catholic Church is strong is Spain, which is known for the Spanish Inquisition.

LOL. Honestly. You can't make this stuff up.

[Mad Dawg]

So, the fact that during His ministry He never addresses her as such shows that their relationship had changed.

You do not know that.

[Petronski]

THAT belongs in the Friday Silliness Thread.

[Petronski]

Credibility goes with the identity. To quote someone and fail to give the source could indicate the quoter is embarrassed about the source, or ashamed of him/her.

[Mad Dawg]

I live in Virginia, which is known for slavery.

Good find on the site! I have no more questions about why Manfred didn't want to give us the URL, which is known for silliness

Anyway, I addressed the alleged arguments. The difference that knowing the URl makes to me is that now I will giggle while I address any subsequent arguments.

Mad Dawg, who is known for giggling.

[ArrogantBustard]

Dude ... please be careful ... you're starting down a dangerous road with that blinky text. I'm afraid of where you might end up.

;'}

[Petronski]

Marquee is disabled, so I do what I can.

[Judith Anne]

Dude ... please be careful ... you're starting down a dangerous road with that blinky text.

Yeah, it makes me want to ping myself again......

[Petronski]

“The Catholic Undertow” ???

Yeah, that’s going to be a fair site.

[Mad Dawg]

Yeah, it makes me want to ping myself again......

We'll pray for you.