Posted on 03/24/2008 4:09:15 PM PDT by Terriergal
The Rev. Rob Bell hops up onto the circular stage in his tennis shoes, his headset microphone in place.
"Hi," he says. "Good morning. If you're coming in late, we still love you. Make yourself at home."
It's Sunday morning at Mars Hill Bible Church, and Bell is doing his thing, using "Philippians" and "awesome" in the same sentence and waiting for a musician to strap on an accordion.
Then, he starts talking about his big thing: Hope.
Sometimes, he says, just as Paul did in Philippians, you have to borrow some.
"You don't have to have it all together," he tells the crowd earnestly. "It's OK to say, 'I don't have any hope today -- can I borrow some of yours?' Ask somebody you don't know. It'll be fine. Weirder things have happened here."
Bell, 37, is the founding pastor of Mars Hill in Grandville.
It's the church that used to be a shopping mall, where each Sunday between 8,000 and 10,000 people stream into three services they call "gatherings."
Five things to know about Rob Bell:
He was in a band in college called ___ ton bundle. They left a blank in front and would periodically fill it in. Nun ton bundle, Rapunzel ton bundle, etc. "It was nuts," he says with a grin. "We had a guitar player who dressed like a pirate."
He's a jock. He plays soccer twice a week, takes boxing lessons and is quick to grab a snowboard, skateboard or water skis.
"I inhale books and magazines," he says. "On everything -- economics, art, politics. I get on a subject and learn everything I can about it. For every two or three ideas I crank out, I've probably inhaled a hundred."
He's behind the LOVE WINS bumper stickers. He handed them out after a sermon a few years ago and now the church gives them out after its Sunday gatherings.
He's a health foody. He loves the green burrito at the Gaia Cafe on Diamond Avenue. He buys locally grown ingredients, makes guacamole almost daily and simmers black beans with polenta.
Learn about Rob Bell's church Mars Hill Bible Church
See a sample of one of his NOOMA films or watch one of his clips
A 2006 article in the Chicago Sun Times called the charismatic Bell the next Billy Graham. A year later, TheChurchReport.com named him No. 10 on its list of "The 50 Most Influential Christians in America." He made TIME magazine in December.
Acclaim makes him squirm.
His speaking tours sell out, and a new speaking request comes in about every 10 minutes. But he'd rather talk about how billions of people have no safe drinking water and how you can help. His nondenominational church is huge on social activism.
Bell is geeky-hip, with his black plastic glasses and skinny black jeans.
He loves British transvestite comedian Eddie Izzard, an elusive graffiti artist named Banksy and U2. He rents vintage Rolling Stones concerts from Netflix. On his day off, he hangs out at a bike shop on Leonard Street.
"I'll spend a couple of hours with the bike mechanics and listen," he says. "That's a good time."
Bell embraces mystery. He asks questions. It goes back to his childhood, he says.
"My parents were intellectually rigorous," he says. "Ask questions, explore, don't take things at face value. Stretch. I've always been interested in the thing behind the thing."
It can make church people nervous, he says.
"If a pastor is asking questions about theology, that alone upsets churches that have been around for 50 years," he notes.
He's casual and friendly, exuding a "let's go hang out" kind of vibe, but Bell is doggedly protected by the Mars Hill staff. He has become the kind of famous that breeds autograph seekers and stalkers and people who flock to him figuring he must hold the meaning of life.
"We can't go anywhere -- anywhere -- without people coming up to him, wanting to talk to him, wanting to thank him," says Bell's friend of nine years, Tom Maas. "Because of the way he speaks, people think they know him. He pours his heart out about stuff."
"There are dimensions to my life that have become surreal," Bell says, sitting in an office at Mars Hill on a Thursday afternoon.
During a stop in Louisville for his speaking tour, 1,000 people lined up for his autograph, including a woman in labor who wouldn't go to the hospital until she secured his scrawl.
"The TIME Magazine thing ..." He shakes his head. "This is my life? I'm under no illusions this is normal. We left normal a long time ago.
"On the other hand," he says, "I work hard at this. You want your work to help people."
Worldwide appeal
Bell talks in amazement about the worldwide reaction to NOOMA, his series of short videos that have sold more than 1.2 million copies in 80 countries, according to its publisher, Zondervan Books.
He's heard from Muslim high school girls in Morocco, villagers in India. A recovering heroin addict stopped him on Division Avenue the other day and told him they're using NOOMA in her recovery group. He just heard the Green Bay Packers are watching them.
He says he turns down most interview requests -- there are too many -- but likes to support his hometown paper. With limits. No photos of his young sons. His wife, Kristen, declined to be interviewed.
"Kristen and I have worked hard to establish a normal life, under the radar," he says. He lives in a former crack house in the core city. He and his wife share one car. He walks his kids to school in the morning.
The crowds, the autographs, the fame. As Bell might say: Dude -- why?
His friend Maas, who has attended Mars Hill since week three, sums up the appeal:
"He approaches the most difficult topics of the day and dives deep into them, approaching things like theology with a childlike wonder, so a fifth-grader can understand them. Not naive, not simple, but understandable."
Bell says he's trying to connect.
"If people have been thinking about God and life and Jesus, and somebody comes along and puts words to some of their deepest fears, theories, intuition, a pretty nuclear reaction goes off," he says.
"For many people, there's a widespread, low-grade despair at the heart of everything," Bell says. "If we can tilt things a few clicks in the hope direction, that would be beautiful."
Hope is his bottom line, he says.
"There's nothing to fear," Bell says. "At the core of the Christian experience, there's resurrection. The story ends better than anything you can make up yourself."
But along the way, he talks about all the crud you face first, the stuff that has the guy in the Harley T-shirt nodding over his Bible in the 14th row.
"I can be totally honest about how dreadful the world is," Bell says. "It's OK to acknowledge that. Half the Psalms are laments -- 'Lord, why have you forsaken me?'
"Many people have been presented a message that's candy-coated. It doesn't ring true. It has a nice red bow on it, but there's no blood and guts. I fully acknowledge the suffering and pain, but at the same time there's great hope."
He smiles. "There's an open tomb."
He grew up in Okemos, near Lansing, with his parents, Helen and Robert Bell, sister Ruth and brother John. His dad is a U.S. District Court Judge.
"I had no idea where I fit," he says. "But I've always been drawn to the outcasts, to the girl with the black fingernail polish."
His mom, Helen, tells how young Rob used to tie a red bath towel around his neck, jump off the porch and pretend to be Superman.
"He never wanted to do what everybody else did," she says.
He went to Wheaton College in Illinois, his parents' alma mater. He studied psychology, met his wife there and fronted a punk rock band that played Chicago clubs.
"We thought we'd be the next R.E.M.," he says. "It was taking a statement, crafting it, delivering it. Something was birthed there. It was all a warm-up for the first time I ever preached."
But during his senior year, he got viral meningitis, and the brain inflammation landed him in the hospital. The band broke up.
"I had absolutely no idea what to do with my life," he says. "No plan."
Starting a church
People kept telling him he should be a pastor. The plan solidified one summer when he was teaching water skiing at a summer camp and was asked to fill in at a camp service.
"I thought, 'This is what I'm supposed to do.' But I knew it would have to work for my world. It would have to be vibrant and subversive."
After graduation, he went to Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, Calif., then interned at Calvary Church under the Rev. Ed Dobson. He took over the hip Saturday night service and soon got thinking about starting a new church.
"I thought there was a whole generation of people hungry for Jesus, but unable to connect with the churches they had experienced," he says. "I had a defining moment in 1998 on the green futon in the upstairs bedroom. It was: If nobody comes, it's still a success. Because we tried something new."
It's church stripped down to its core: message.
"Success," he says, "is not living with what if."
He grins.
"I thought, 'I'm either barkin' mad or there won't be enough seats.' I knew there would be no middle ground."
That first Sunday nine years ago, more than 1,000 people showed up. They ran out of chairs. Six months later, attendance had swelled to 4,000.
Bell was doing everything -- weddings, funerals, spiritual direction, visiting prisons and hospitals and doing all the preaching.
"It was absolutely surreal," he says. "Total joy and celebration. You know that feeling you get when you're in the hospital when your kid is born and everybody has tears in their eyes and is taking pictures and you feel like you're floating?"
He pauses, takes off his glasses and leans his head back against the wall.
"Then it's three months later at 4 a.m., and your child is keeping everybody awake.
"There are giant down sides," he says quietly. "I didn't have any tools. There was no instruction manual. I went from an intern to senior pastor in a couple of years. I was 28. It was freakish growth.
"I thought, 'This is a roller coaster, and if it goes up, it must come down. Somebody will pay.'"
He did.
One Sunday morning, as thousands streamed in for the 11 a.m. service, Bell hid in the storage room behind the sound booth. He listened, holding his car keys in his hand, as the room filled up with people.
He wondered how far away he could get by 11.
"I was burned out," he says. "By our fifth anniversary, I was fried. As my doctor put it, 'You're going too fast, too hard for too long.' I had to learn a new normal."
He found a therapist and took a 10-week break.
"I spent days in the woods just staring at trees," he says. "It began deep in my soul -- that I had nothing to prove. I had to die to the need to achieve and impress."
Life beyond church
He set aside Fridays as his sabbath. No cell phone, no e-mail. He turned over pastoring duties to another lead pastor, focusing on sermons he calls "teaching," his writing and NOOMA.
His third book, "Jesus Wants to Save Christians," written with Mars Hill lead pastor Don Golden, is due out this fall. His first two, "Velvet Elvis" and "Sex God" have sold more than a half-million copies, according to publisher Zondervan Books.
"My brain is quiet and empty," Bell says with a smile.
He's home most days by 5 to hang out with his wife and sons Trace, 9, and Preston, 7.
He builds ramps for skateboarding, they toss a football around in the park across the street.
"Work is what I do while I'm waiting for my kids to get home from school," he says.
His mom, Helen, tells how he lives what he preaches.
"He's a man of prayer and conviction," she says. "That's real. It's not just to get a sermon together."
Helen says people always ask if she expected her son's success. She laughs. "Do they think we're delusional? Obviously, we wanted him to do well, but for it to have exploded like this, it surprised everyone." She says her son knows the importance of boundaries.
"Some people in the ministry have a house filled with people who need a place to stay," Helen says. "He's more reserved than that. He doesn't collect people. He's not one to surround himself with wounded birds. He's more private than that."
His friend Tom Maas calls him "kind of introverted, if that makes any sense.
"He doesn't really need to be protected from the public," says Maas, 52. "He needs to be protected from himself. He's kind and generous, almost to a fault. He's just trying to teach and live the gospel of Jesus."
With success comes criticism.
"I don't Google my name," Bell says. "Somebody told me there's somebody out there doing seminars against me." He grins. "Wow -- I'm helping somebody out there pay their bills."
Bloggers question his substance, his theology, his very Christianity.
Does it bother him?
He leans his head back against the wall and thinks about that.
"Part of it hurts," he says. "It just hurts. It's painful. But it's fear and misunderstanding. These are mean and angry people."
Then he laughs.
"You know, God could give me 50 more years," he says. "So don't wind me up. If you're offended now, I'm just getting going."
E-mail Terri Finch Hamilton: thamilton@grpress.com
Let me rephrase that- the Bible has lot to say about being the church, but not running a church.
Theologically, Mark Driscoll IS much different. He just needs to clean up his potty mouth and stop going for the shock factor so much.
Re-read Ezekiel and get back to me on "potty mouth" and "shock factor." Or St. Paul in Galatians 5 ("castrate themselves") or Philippians 3:8 (skubala, the profane term for fecal matter is used).
The gospel is shocking and counter-cultural to the religious as much as the non-religious.
I have read Ezekiel and Paul’s words. This does not excuse Mark Driscoll talking about people thinking Mary was knocking boots with a Roman soldier in the back seat of a car. Scripture indicates we are to guard our tongue and to not allow profane language to pass through our lips. Driscoll needs to clean up his mouth, period.
I don't much else about Rob Bell other than his dvd series NOOMA, but having listened to several of the NOOMA dvd’s with Rob Bell, I would say he’z a Christian. He mentions Jesus constantly. He references New and Old Testament scripture time and again.
His points are highlighting what God is saying to His people in a way maybe the younger generation can hold on to.
Is it for everyone? No. Was the NOOMA series anti-christian, new age or mysticism? That wasn't my take on it.
Cyrano is slogging through velvet elvis right now. It’s atrocious, some of the stuff he’s been reading aloud to me.
“jesus believes in you” that’s nonsense! Jesus doesn’t BELIEVE anything. He KNOWS all.
He commands us to believe because we DON’T know all.
It’s so man centered it’s hard to know where to begin, plus he incorporates universalism and eastern mysticism, both corruptions of the gospel. I guess salt water and fresh water CAN come from the same spring? Jesus was wrong then.
Hey, so does Fred Phelps and his little girl Shirley.
Actually, I think Jesus does believe in us, after all we are His bride, and He sees a spotless virtuous maiden. If He sees us like that and not the way we act, I’d say that’s some pretty awesome faith.
Now for the eastern mysticism and universalism, please show me where that is. I’m usually sensitive to that heresy,because I was a new-ager before I got saved, but I didn’t pick up on it in Velvet Elvis- but I would sincerely like to know where it is.
Maybe I didn’t notice it because I’m used to spitting out the false garbage in every book I read that isn’t the Bible-(yes, even John MacArthur’s bilge) so I don’t tend to hold any author to a high standard of perfection.
Ezekiel doesn’t use toilet slang. He may use brutal sarcasm but he does it in a decidedly proper way.
I have listened to Mark’s eisegesis on ‘scatological humor’ and don’t find anything scriptural in it.
Yeah he sees a spotless virtuous maiden, that’s why he voluntarily died to pay for her iniquity.
Yeah. That's why he describes Israel as a whore who spreads her legs for every passer-by. Ezekiel 22 would be unprintable on this board.
Hello, it’s PAID. Past tense. The finished work, remember?
Nevermind, I can see you’re a guilty type of Christian. We aren’t going to agree here.
As someone who's reading through Velvet Elvis now, I'll take a shot at listing what I've seen. It'll be a little stream of consciousness, because I haven't gotten through the whole book yet. And I won't reference Bell's NOOMA stuff, because though I haven't been impressed by what I've seen thus far, I haven't seen enough to speak on it.
Fundamentally, I think the problem with Bell is that he'll say things that sound profound, and could be true and defensible, but that are so vague or contradictory or absent of definition that they actually could mean anything (I'd say "koan-like" but it'd beg the question). And his own applications of those sayings don't seem orthodox.
(This actually leads to another issue I have with Bell: his fondness for equivocation. In "Bricks" he talks about questioning teachings of Christianity, and how we shouldn't be afraid to do it. I would agree that everyone has a theological grid of beliefs, and one should be open to beings shown by Scripture that the grid is wrong in some part. That's basic hermeneutics. But Bell's hypothetical example goes beyond interpretation; it would contradict the inerrancy of Scripture. And while Bell may believe that doesn't matter to the "way of Jesus," Paul seemed pretty convinced that it did in 1 Cor 15. Christianity is based on historical events; if those are false, then there is no Christianity, and frankly you'd be better off with the Tao Te Ching; it'd be more consistent.)
It may not be what you're looking for--not too specific to new-age stuff, but it's what I've seen, and I think there are definitely echoes of eastern and universalist teachings in it.
Okay, I see what you’re saying. I think you’re reaching a bit here and there, though.
I read it about six months ago, and I borrowed it, so I can’t reference anything directly now.
But as for your first point- does he actually say that the Gospel ‘has nothing to do with sin, judgment, grace, salvation through Christ’s sacrifice’? Or does he simply talk about living a Christian lifestyle in terms of ‘being generous, compassionate, peaceful, etc.’ As you said, there’s nothing uniquely Christian about them, but if one’s intent is to demionstrate the love of God by doing such things, I have no problem. In fact, there are an awful lot of Christians who think that saying the right words is enough, while they neglect such obligations. Talk is cheap.
Point 2- I actually think the rhema is in fact more important than the logos, in terms of our daily life with God. Now, if we don’t know the written Word of God, we’re just being irresponsible since it’s so easily available to us. But communication with the Lord on a moment to moment basis is how our faith is built and sustained. Example- when Paul was planting churches, those believers had no Bible. They had very limied access to a Torah, if they were Jewish. Gentiles had no previous knowledge of Abraham, Moses, David, etc. All they had was the Holy Spirit, each other, and Paul himself and other workers on a limited basis. So God effected the beginnings of the church not on a daily experience with the logos, but rather the rhema.
I think point three is just an extreme example, to the level of absurdity, to make a point. After all, what do we do if it’s proven that the earth is more than 6000 years old? Abandon our faith? Not a chance.
Anyway, I’m not defending Rob Bell, I don’t know the guy, I wouldn’t attend his church, and I only ever read one book by him. I guess I just get tired of religious Christians overreacting to every guy who talks about God and isn’t from Dallas Theological Seminary.
>>I would say hez a Christian. He mentions Jesus constantly. He references New and Old Testament scripture time and again.
Hey, so does Fred Phelps and his little girl Shirley.”
Honestly, have you ever listened to the NOOMA series?
If you have, and you still come away saying this is not a scripturally based, Jesus centered series then you must have a very different definition of Christianity.
Believe me, Cyrano is not prone to ‘reaching.’ It’s like living with Mr Spock. (not Doctor benjamin Spock)
does he actually say that the Gospel has nothing to do with sin, judgment, grace, salvation through Christs sacrifice?
No, he doesn't, but that wasn't what I claimed he was saying. Bell completely avoids any talk about the Law or Gospel entirely, speaking only of some nebulous "way that Jesus taught," which essentially works out to be the Golden Rule.
I would agree that Christians should display in their lives fruits like what Bell lists. But without a clear articulation of the whole Gospel (which would include sin and judgement on sinners) putting the "way" that Bell discusses in the proper context, one is left only with another legalistic social gospel call empty of any message able to call men to salvation.
I must be too tired, because your logos/rhema paragraph sounded exactly backwords, according to my understanding of the terms. My point in bringing up the idea was that any application of Scripture must come out of the meaning and historical context of the text. Emphasizing the subjective experience and application of the individual is the first step down a dangerous road whose ills have infected so much of Christianity the last century. And BTW, I'd say using phrases like "the Bible is alive" is the next step down that road...
guess I just get tired of religious Christians overreacting to every guy who talks about God and isnt from Dallas Theological Seminary.
I wasn't implying you defended Bell; I just looked to answer a question. Having said that, I would mention that in order to user the term "overreact", one must have been able to articulate what is being said and demonstrate there is no concern at that level. Your own description of the book and your knowledge of it don't seem to meet the burden of proof that would allow you to start throwing around terms like "over-react".../p>
lol I hate that! Happens to me too.
Bell completely avoids any talk about the Law or Gospel entirely, speaking only of some nebulous "way that Jesus taught," which essentially works out to be the Golden Rule.
I guess the question is, what was he writing about? A theological treatise on the mechanics of how salvation works, or something else? Basically, I think the golden rule is actually what the book boils down to, now that you mention it.
I would agree that Christians should display in their lives fruits like what Bell lists. But without a clear articulation of the whole Gospel (which would include sin and judgement on sinners) putting the "way" that Bell discusses in the proper context, one is left only with another legalistic social gospel call empty of any message able to call men to salvation.
Again, why is it a requirement that he have an Finney-style evangelistic message in his book? Doesn't seem to be an evangelistic effort, in the traditional sense anyway. I got the sense that it was more a book for the church, but I can see how his approach would be attractive to someone searching for authenticity.
I must be too tired, because your logos/rhema paragraph sounded exactly backwords, according to my understanding of the terms.
logos- primarily the written word, among other permutations of the terms- also, Jesus is referred to as the Logos- meaning the whole counsel of God, the complete expression of His Father.
rhema- the spoken word- the 'right here and now' communication of the Holy Spirit to us.
My point in bringing up the idea was that any application of Scripture must come out of the meaning and historical context of the text.
First of all, whose 'meaning and historical context'? The Merrill/Tenney/White Bible Almnac, Rob Bell's rabbinical emphasis, Catholic tradition, Coptic tradition, Syrian/Aramaic? We have a bad habit of interpreting an eternal and infinite Logos within our comfort zones.
Emphasizing the subjective experience and application of the individual is the first step down a dangerous road whose ills have infected so much of Christianity the last century. And BTW, I'd say using phrases like "the Bible is alive" is the next step down that road.
1> Do you trust the Holy Spirit to keep those that are His? 2> The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. The Pharisees knew the objective Word very well- but they missed the subjective encounter with God Himself. How many ills have infected Christianity based on an undue despising of the Holy Spirit and His work?
I wasn't implying you defended Bell; I just looked to answer a question. Having said that, I would mention that in order to user the term "overreact", one must have been able to articulate what is being said and demonstrate there is no concern at that level. Your own description of the book and your knowledge of it don't seem to meet the burden of proof that would allow you to start throwing around terms like "over-react".
That was mainly directed at the panicked attitude infusing posts like this. "Oooh, a threat to the faith! Rob Bell doesn't hang out with Chuck Swindol!" And the ignorance and overreaction of some of the responses every time something like this is posted, it's frankly embarrassing. I just pray that unsaved lurkers aren't reading it.
Thanks for a thoughtful response.
I think point three is just an extreme example, to the level of absurdity, to make a point. After all, what do we do if its proven that the earth is more than 6000 years old? Abandon our faith? Not a chance.
That was his entry point into that section, yes. But even granting that he's trying to use hyperbole, Bell's example actually proves the opposite point, I think. In trying to show that there are things that are not essential to Christianity, even though some think they are, he actually shows that there are things that are essential, even if people think they are not. I've already said it, but his example of the Virgin Birth being disproven has enormous repercussions. Not just to that doctrine, but to the authority and inerrancy of Scripture. Essentially, he's saying that Mt 1:23 is lying, because the Greek word parthenos is far more explicitly referring to a virgin than the Hebrew word 'almah in Is 7:14 that it is referencing.
Bell is basically saying, "If we couldn't trust the words of Scripture, could we still be Christians?" And then he's answering in the affirmative.
I wouldn't quibble on his answer to that question. However, his scenario creates a far more important question: If we couldn't trust the words of Scripture, is Christianity still true?" And the answer to that question, at least according to Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 (among other places) is an emphatic "No!"
If Bell, Doug Pagitt, or any of the other current Emergent luminaries want to create a religion that embraces subjective experience and social interaction as the core determiners of truth (or "more true-ishness" or whatever), they are welcome to do so. When they claim that religion is one with historic Christianity, however, I will not accept their equivocation of terms.
Christianity is about Truth. Jesus the Truth, the Word is Truth, God the same yesterday, today, and forever (i.e. eternal consistency, which would have to be Truth). If all that is a lie, then I'd want nothing to do with any way that Jesus taught, because it would be founded upon a lie.
Okay, off the soapbox for a bit...
Basically, I think the golden rule is actually what the book boils down to, now that you mention it.
And my concern with that is that the way the book is structured, the golden rule is presented as a core tenet of Christianity, the "way that Jesus taught," when it is actually a result of living out one's salvation. Bell puts the cart before the horse, but more tragically, doesn't even acknowledge the horse's existence.
Again, why is it a requirement that he have an Finney-style evangelistic message in his book? Doesn't seem to be an evangelistic effort, in the traditional sense anyway. I got the sense that it was more a book for the church
heheh. I won't digress, but believe me: I am not arguing for a Finney-style evangelistic message.
Velvet Elvis may be a book for the church; if so, I wish it had been more clearly indicated at such. But even in that case, I would argue for the need of a clear articulation of the Gospel. Because that is the foundation of the faith! If that is absent (as it seems to be in my reading thus far), the reader is left with two choices. First, to "fill in the blanks" and assume that Bell would agree (which I would consider very poor teaching methodology, and thus the book is open to criticism.) Second, to assume that Bell does believe that fundamentally, Christianity is a religion of behavior, i.e. works (in which case, Bell is teaching counter to core Christian doctrine and should be confronted).
The Pharisees knew the objective Word very well- but they missed the subjective encounter with God Himself
See, I have trouble with this sort of language. It sounds good, even profound, but it is too vague. Salvation (i.e. believing in the Messiah) is subjective in that it happens to an individual, yes. But it is not subjective in the sense that it carries a different meaning or has a different focus or result for each person.
The Pharisees did not have hearts that were cleansed and turned toward God. Their religion was nothing more than a set of rules interpreting OT law (and BTW, Jesus didn't seem to have an issue with what they interpreted; His problem was that they "neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness." (Mt 23:23 NASB)
And essentially, that is my concern with VE as well. If salvation is nothing more than obedience to a set of rules (whether they are strict behavioral guidelines of the Pharisees or the more nebulous golden rule), then VE is just a touchy-feely form of legalism. And while legalism can make a clean, polite society, it cannot save. And any attempt to discuss "the way that Jesus taught" that omits salvation is not the gospel.
This turned out much longer than I'd anticipated. Sorry about that.
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