Posted on 03/23/2008 4:21:16 PM PDT by biscuit jane
ewish groups around the world have condemned Pope Benedict XVI's new version of a Catholic Good Friday prayer. SPIEGEL ONLINE talks to prominent German rabbi Walter Homolka about why the prayer is insulting to Jews and discusses alleged anti-Semitic tendencies within the Catholic Church.
Rabbi Walter Homolka: "The Catholic Church does not have its anti-Semitic tendencies under control." Around the world, millions of Catholics are celebrating Good Friday, when they commemorate the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. But for many Jews, this year's ceremonies leave a bitter aftertaste, due to a controversial new version of a prayer that many claim is anti-Semitic.
Last month, the Vatican announced that Pope Benedict XVI had revised the so-called "Good Friday Prayer for the Jews" which forms part of the Tridentine Mass, often referred to as the Latin Mass. The new version, translated from the Latin, reads: "Let us also pray for the Jews: That our God and Lord may illuminate their hearts, that they acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men..."
(Excerpt) Read more at spiegel.de ...
But what's the point??? Will God cut short His timetable???
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
God says don't be conceited in your self perceived wisdom...When God's plan is completed, He will lift the blinders from Israel...
Although I would agree that a Pastor or Priest should encourage his flock to privately pray for the Salvation of Israel, making it a policy of a religion could only lead to suspicion and scepticism from the Jewish nation...
I can understand their dismay at the turn of events...
You really need to back off from the highly excessive preoccupation with Judaized Christianity you seem to have, and use some common sense.
Speaking of presumption...
Your novel sect resuscitates Judaized Christianity after its 1800+ year absence from the scene, even as its very absence is a sure sign of the ratification of its removal by God's Providence for His Church, and yet you speak of "presumption"???
You entirely misread the thrust of St. Paul's warnings against rigid adherence to the Law, the verdict of Christian history and St. Paul with respect to the continued Christian observance of the Jewish High Holy Days, and the basic logic involved in understanding the concept of the abrogation of both.
Look, if you’re going to come on these threads just to be peevish like this, why don’t you instead go find some high-brow cocktail party someplace and hang around the punchbowl being annoying to people. Don’t forget the propeller beanie. It's a nice added touch!
Give me a break!!!
“I’m getting a bit tired of this. Remember how hysterical they were when Gibson’s Passion of the Christ movie came out?”
I feel exactly the same way. My support for Israel in their precarious position in the MiddleEast is unwavering. However, Jewish critique of the Passion of Jesus Christ is basically saying that Christianity in itself is anti-Semitic. This is flatly absurd. It’s getting very old and getting past the point of frustrating.
Time is short while at work, so, to quote myself in response to your posting of this same article on another thread:
Well, no one denies that the Church “changed” things to Sunday. The problem for you is that the process was well underway even in apostolic times, and the end game for the Judaizers was in the mid-Second Century. The Judaizers were overruled by a Church that had the self-awareness of the authority to do so. In any event, your article is off by a couple hundred years with regard to these changes. They had already been moot by the time of Constantine. Contrary to the article’s slant, except for a few highly isolated holdouts, no one held to your peculiar take on Sabbaths and festivals by the early 300’s. The movement became extinct. SDA authors are not noted for any real scholarship in their histories of these things, and this article’s “hero” is no exception.
For you to be correct on this issue of Sabbaths and festivals, you must show how a God who promises to care for and guide His Church “all days till the end of the age” failed to so guide the Church in this matter, and continued in this failure for no less than 1700 years (if you include the few isolated holdouts; if you don’t it’s closer to 1900 years) until the mid-20th Century, when the neo-Judaizer groups like yours first saw the light of day. If you cannot credibly explain this away, then your case is conclusively demonstrated to be very unsound.
Thank you! There are times when some people find comfort in the desire to be different and special regardless of the truth!
Maybe you need to re-read Paul. There aren't two olive trees, or ten, or a hundred.
There is only one. One faith, one baptism. See Ephesians 3:4-6.
Unfortunately, the Roman Catholic Church is closer to Reform Judaism than it is to Orthodox, especially with its constant updating of its services and doctrines and its higher critical attitude towards the Bible. Shoot--I bet the idea of Protestants praying for Catholic conversion would make them every bit as angry!
I'd like to say that no Orthodox Jew would have anything whatsoever to do with the evil "ecumenical" attempt at syncretising all religions, but alas, I cannot. And unfortunately, the Catholic Church is the leader in that endeavor.
Hey, don't worry. You always have the "fundies" to beat up on (the one with red necks, at any rate).
Better to be prayed for by a Christian than killed by a Muslim. Don’t ya’ think?.
Sura (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution of Muslims is worse than slaughter of non-believers...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power."
Ibn Ishaq: 327 - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”
There is only one. One faith, one baptism. See Ephesians 3:4-6.
30 posted on 03/24/2008 2:39:26 PM MDT by Campion
The olive tree root that you are refering to in Romans 11 is YHvH Ephesians 3
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
I find no olive tree nor baptism in the verses cited.
5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;
6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, 24 .... how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
The term Ekklesia is used in the LXX for the assembly of the Chosen People.
Yes, my post to you was sarcasm.
Unfortunately, no, many Catholics do not see fundamentalists as brothers and sisters but as stupid, bigoted, and violent (about how Jews regarded Catholics in the Middle Ages). Catholics on this forum have made sneering references to "Billy Bob's Glory Barn" and called Fundamentalists such things as "Cletus" and "brain-dead bibliolators" (actually, the guy who called them "Cletus" wasn't Catholic but claimed to be pro-Catholic). A prominent Fundamentalist minister has been compared to a fat hog in the mud.
There are a few Catholics on this site who don't sneer at them. If you also do not then welcome to an extremely small club. I wish there were more of you.
Who was that? They need to be corrected because it is really Hobart's Glory Barn.
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