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To: markomalley
So I assume, then, that you address(ed) your paternal parent as “Frank” or “George” Take the crap you’re spewing someplace else...

Crap? Listen pal - the words from Matthew 23 are from Christ Himself. If you have a problem with them, take it up with Him.

Furthermore, your attempt at an analogy sinks faster than the Bismark. Have you not read Matthew Chapter 23?

The context of what He said is entirely a warning to religious figures to not give themselves authority and honor that they do not possess.

It had nothing to do with your parents (as you so feebly tried to infer).

______________________________________________________________________

Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

5"Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.'

8"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.[b] 11The greatest among you will be your servant. 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

16"Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.' 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.' 19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.

23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!

33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Did you even read it? Can you now tell me Christ was dictating that children had to call their parents by their names, or was He telling us what He demands vis a vis religious figures? I am not saying the Pope is not serving the cause of Christ – but don’t violate what Christ Himself teaches.

Is that so hard?

53 posted on 03/17/2008 3:49:29 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot
Did you even read it? Can you now tell me Christ was dictating that children had to call their parents by their names, or was He telling us what He demands vis a vis religious figures? I am not saying the Pope is not serving the cause of Christ – but don’t violate what Christ Himself teaches.

Is that so hard?

No harder than for St. Paul or St. John. If they can identify themselves as spiritual parents, then maybe they understood what Our Lord meant a little better than whoever taught you that perverse interpretation. (check out 1 Cor 4:15 for just one example of this)

The problem is that the question is already answered in the context of the section you printed: 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

As St. John Chrysostom said,

But wherein are they earnest, and vigorous? In the things forbidden. For, “all their works they do,” He saith, “to be seen of men.” These things He saith, accusing them in respect of vainglory, which kind of thing was their ruin. For the things before were signs of harshness and remissness, but these of the mad desire of glory. This drew them off from God, this caused them to strive before other spectators, and ruined them. For whatever kind of spectators any one may have, since it hath become his study to please these, such also are the contests he exhibits And he that wrestles among the noble, such also are the conflicts he takes in hand, but he among the cold and supine, himself also becomes more remiss. For instance, hath any one a beholder that delights in ridicule? he himself too becomes a mover of ridicule, that he may delight the spectator: hath another one who is earnest minded, and practises self-government? he endeavors himself to be such as he is, since such is the disposition of him who praises him.

Or, as St. Augustine facetiously stated: each should as matter of course be also compelled to deny that the apostles had fathers on earth; since He gave them an injunction in these terms: “Call no man your father upon the earth; for one is your Father, which is in heaven.” (de Fide, 4)

Point is, before you start pulling scripture out of conext (especially funny when you quote the context), you should make sure that you understand the context. Otherwise, you can explain why Job, Abrhaam, the levite with Micah, Eliakim, Paul, John, etc., etc., etc., are all referred in the same, exact context as Catholics use toward priests and bishops.

Maybe, just maybe, the Catholics are the more scriptural here in this context.

(Or maybe you should consider looking at Pastor ___ or Brother ____, who place themselves above God, and extend the context of Matthew 23 a little bit)

68 posted on 03/17/2008 7:04:33 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus)
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