Applause, applause, applause, STANDING OVATION!
Great job pointing out the following failed treatise by Delphi:
Delphi Said: I never said the Book of Mormon could be proven true, in fact, I don't believe God wants it to be.
Godzilla Said: Playing with the facts here DU, and the electronic paper trail makes it clear from this post to conservativegramma:
Link
I Said (conservativegramma): 2nd correction: The only proof the BOM was translated by Joseph Smith is from Joseph Smith.
Delphi Said: Nice try, Read Book of Mormon Evidences and Photographic evidence of the Book of Mormon How about a paper from Stanford about The Book of Mormon and Mesoamerican Archeology. Refusal to look at evidence for the Book of Mormon constitutes wilful ignorance of the topic you have chosen to debate.
As Emeril would say - BAM! Caught in a lie right there! I hope everyone can see here how Delphi deliberately LIES. If you are a non-mormon considering the LDS please see this as proof the BOM is false and the LDS is false. God does not (past, present or future) advocate LYING, but SATAN DOES.
The following was also FANTASTIC!
Delphi Said: Moses only had his and God's word in the beginning, Jesus also said God would testify of him, as his proof, remember? So it's not a stretch at all to ask God to testify of his prophets, like Moses, and Joseph and he does.
Godzilla Said: Again, did joey part the red sea and bring plagues? Did joey heal the sick and the lame as Jesus did? Did joey rise from the dead? Sorry, non starting comparison.
Amen! I had been wanting to bring this point out. When God established the old covenant, it was confirmed and evidenced through the miracles of Moses, i.e., parting of the red sea, turning the Nile into blood, and on and on. When God established the new covenant, it was confirmed and evidenced by the works of Christ, walking on water, calming the storm, raising the dead. (As well as being the confirmation and evidence that Christ was who He said He was). The Apostles themselves were also able to do these things as the New Testament was confirmed and evidenced. What exactly did Joseph Smith do when the BOM was ‘established’? Eh Mormons? A ‘restoration of the church’ would have been a monumental event if true (and I say that loosely) and should have been confirmed and evidenced the same way as the OT and the NT. What miracles did Smith EVER DO that confirmed this addition to the canon was of God? I’ll probably be waiting until Hell freezes over for that answer and when it does come it will be full of holes.
Great job again Godzilla!
For your edification form:
http://packham.n4m.org/lds-prph.htm
PROPHECIES OF MORMONISM NOT USUALLY CITED BY MORMONS
Joseph Smith's Lying and Womanizing
Joseph Smith denied continually that the Mormons were practicing plural marriage; he insisted he had only one wife, as late as 1844 (when he had "married" over thirty women, many of them already with living husbands):
"What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers." (HoC 6:411)
This lying was prophesied more than 2000 years before:
Jeremiah 48:10
Cursed [be] he that doeth the work of the LORD deceitfully,...
(Compare D&C 50:17-18: Verily I say unto you, he that is ordained of me and sent forth to preach the word of truth by the Comforter, in the Spirit of truth, doth he preach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way? 18 And if it be by some other way it is not of God.)
Revelation 2:2
I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars...
Revelation 2:4 is a prophecy of Joseph Smith's unfaithfulness to his wife Emma:
Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Revelation 21:8 prophesies Smith's adulteries, his dabbling in magic, and his lying:
But the ... whoremongers, and sorcerers, ... and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Jeremiah 29:21-23 prophesies his adulteries with his friends' wives while pretending to be a prophet:
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, of [false prophets]... 23 Because they have committed villany in Israel, and have committed adultery with their neighbours' wives, and have spoken lying words in my name, which I have not commanded them; even I know, and [am] a witness, saith the LORD. Even modern prophecy condemns Smith's many sins (this is a useful quote when Mormons ask us to overlook Smith's little "mistakes"):
D&C 50:26-28 (speaking of the president of the church):
He that is ordained of God and sent forth, the same is appointed to be the greatest, notwithstanding he is the least and the servant of all. 27 Wherefore, he is possessor of all things; for all things are subject unto him, both in heaven and on the earth, the life and the light, the Spirit and the power, sent forth by the will of the Father through Jesus Christ, his Son. 28 But no man is possessor of all things except he be purified and cleansed from all sin.
Joseph Smith's false prophecies were also prophesied of in the Bible.
Deuteronomy 18:20-22
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? 22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Jeremiah 5:31
The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love [to have it] so...
Jeremiah 23:16
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, [and] not out of the mouth of the LORD.
Jeremiah 14:14
Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
Side comment: Note that this was said at the time Lehi was supposed to be a "prophet" in Jerusalem.
Matthew 24:11
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Joseph Smith claimed that he was ministered to by three personages claiming to be Peter, James and John. This event was also prophesied in the Bible:
Revelation 16:13
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.