[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

****Agreed. There has always been believers, at least in what they knew to be true. Those who live and obey the laws as they know them to be right and true are indeed true believers. Good point.****

But wait! Mormons claim the New World Nephites were killed off and the Old World Christians went into apostacy.

So if there have always been believers then the Holy Spirit was still with them and there was no need of a “restoration” of the gospel.

As Jesus said, Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

So he never left us after all. You are again caught on the horns of a delima.

[sevenbak]

The Apostles that Christ was talking to were all previously (in verse 19) told to “Go into all the world, and teach all nations, baptizing them...” Thy were all cruelly martyred later as well. That doesn’t mean Christ wasn’t with them, he was, to the very end, and to our very end, if we are faithful.
The apostasy isn’t about Christ leaving his true disciples, it’s about them leaving Him.

I’m curious... since you brought up this verse... do you think that baptism is mandatory and essential, as Christ told his apostles in these verses. I know that many of the “evangelical types” don’t consider it absolutely necessary.