Haven't Anti-Mormons Completely Destroyed the Credibility of Mormonism?

jefflindsay.com ^ | Nov. 5, 2006 | Jeff Lindsay

[sevenbak]

Where in the Old or New Testaments does it say anything about Christ’s death not being “good enough” that God “requires” an additional “prophet” to fulfill the Law of the Old Testament?

Nowhere. You are trying to make an argument that doesn’t exist. Christ alone fulfilled the law, but he has always worked through prophets. His church organization is the same today as it was when He was here. As stated here in Ephesians, his servants are that we might have unity in the faith, unto a fullness in Christ, not instead of Christ.

Ephesians 4:

11 And he agave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

[nicmarlo]

. You are trying to make an argument that doesn’t exist.

Not from how I see it. You are saying that belief in Christ as the Savior and His death wasn't good enough for salvation. You've added on the ADDITIONAL "requirement" that one has to BELIEVE IN Joseph Smith. Christ never said that belief in Him wasn't good enough. LDS did.

[greyfoxx39]

You can disagree with me all you want, and you can be as vehement as you like about your disagreement. You don’t have to condone my beliefs by any means. But a line is crossed when you decide that my faith must be refuted, that such ends justify the means, and that you must lie, misrepresent, and distort what I believe in order to do so. That person is an anti-Mormon, a religious bigot, and certainly not a Christian in their heart.

" But a line is crossed when you decide that my faith must be refuted"....interesting YOU would say this, tant, in light of your previous post:

All this is why I say that the precepts of mainstream Christianity are as dross to me when compared to the pure, refined, abundant truth of God of which I have sampled. I have found a fine diamond, whereas others have only found a lump of coal. Is it any wonder, then, that you find me entirely intransigent on such things? All I can do is invite. There are diamonds aplenty for all. 173 posted on 09/24/2007 4:57:49 PM MDT by tantiboh

Link

So, your statement: "you must lie, misrepresent, and distort what I believe in order to do so. That person is an anti-Mormon, a religious bigot, and certainly not a Christian in their heart... wherein you judge the hearts of Christians is, to you, permissible while you castigate those who would question YOUR belief.

How revealing. More of the "bigotry for me, but not for thee" attitude of the mormon apologist.

[nicmarlo]

BTW, which parts of Ephesians are “okay” to use?

I was told that “THE BIBLE (which means all of it) IS A SANITARY VERSION.” That means the Bible, all of it, is in error. I was also told there are “ omitten [sic], distorted, or deleted...passage[s].”

So....which “parts” of the Bible can be relied upon?

[sevenbak]

Well, you are seeing it from the wrong angle apparently. The Lord has always had servants. He works through those he has called, not those who want to take the honor unto themselves.

Consider Hebrew 5: 4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

And Amos 3:7

7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

[sevenbak]

All of it. We reverence the bible as truth. Which parts were you told were sanitized and not to be taken at their word?

Or is this something you are reading from anti talking points?

[greyfoxx39]

LOL, you were expecting lucidity?

[sevenbak]

I see it's more spam by the over used gahamm_photos bucket. ;-(

[Zakeet]

Re: So....which “parts” of the Bible can be relied upon?

Re: All of it. We reverence the bible as truth. Which parts were you told were sanitized and not to be taken at their word?

A more accurate response would be:

We reverence the Bible as truth in as far as it is translated correctly, and to the extent it is not supplanted by the other Standard Works or pronouncements by our Prophets.

I wonder why Saints persistently refuse to come clean, and I wonder why this practice irritates Christians?

[greyfoxx39]

However, some choose to hate, lie, deceive, rail, and insult. It is my theory that such do not know Christ. They have chosen a different master, though they hide behind a veil of piety and faith. Of such ilk is the genuine anti-Mormon. Of such ilk is any religious zealot who uses despicable tactics to tear down another faith.

Of such ilk is any religious zealot who uses despicable tactics to tear down another faith

[sevenbak]

Please point out what parts of the bible we don’t believe in. It’s a very simple question. The anti’s love to take those words about translated correctly. They have very VERY little impact on our doctrine from the Holy Bible. In fact, I would dare to say that the LDS likely have more reverence for the complete bible than do most orthodox “Christians”

A lot of them simply throw out the Old Testament entirely. Some also discard books in the NT that seem to contradict their accepted views. (Jesus trumps Paul, etc.)

Again, show me what we “throw out” if you please...

[nicmarlo]

you are seeing it from the wrong angle apparently. The Lord has always had servants.

Well, "my" angle on it comes from Christ, Himself. He said while dying on the cross, "It is finished." It is through belief in HIM that we are saved, by grace, because HE took it upon Himself to suffer and die for all mankind's sins.

John 1:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.

3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

John 2:

18 Then the Jews demanded of him, "What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?"

19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

20 The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

John 3:

16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

John 4:

25 The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."

26 Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he."

John 5:

17 Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." 18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

36 "I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

[nicmarlo]

hoping? : )

[nicmarlo]

Which parts were you told were sanitized and not to be taken at their word?

I've been trying to find that out, and keep asking.

Or is this something you are reading from anti talking points?

Why, no. Resty told me this. But she won't say how or in what way or by whom "THE BIBLE" we have "is a SANITIZED VERSION."

[sevenbak]

Great references about the Savior. Thanks.

But were you attempting to point out that Christ doen’t use His chosen servants? I didn’t see that you did that. Nowhere in Holy Writ does it say Christ no longer works with his chosen servants to do His will and work. In fact, it says just the opposite, as I have pointed out.

[sevenbak]

You may be asking for a long time. We use the King James version, unaltered. We have additional footnotes that are cross references to our other standard works.

Here is our KJV online with all footnotes included if you want to peruse it and see where we are in error.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/nt/contents

[nicmarlo]

By claiming that salvation cannot be RECEIVED without BELIEF IN JOSEPH SMITH goes wayyyyyyyyyyyy beyond “USING servants.”

[narses]

Come nopw, list the heresies you clAIM WE BELIEVE IN. gO AHEAD.

[nicmarlo]

We use the King James version, unaltered.

Well, that's nice to know, and it contradicts what I was told up thread. Now....next question: which "parts" of the Old and New Testaments, in the KJV, are, according to LDS: "omitted, distorted, or deleted...passage[s]" and should be questioned as to their meaning or intent, as written in the KJV?

[sevenbak]

You are totally misrepresenting exactly the same language that is used in Matthew 19:

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Salvation is in and through Christ Jesus alone. We will be judged by both Christ and His anointed servants whom we either listen to or disregard.