Posted on 02/10/2008 11:25:15 AM PST by Reaganesque
Right here:
Matthew 7:21-24
21. "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22. Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
23. Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Just my two cents. The understanding of Christ among Mormons is unorthodox but would possibly allow Mormons to a sort of acceptance as an outlandish and heterodox non-trinitarian Christianity. It’s the Mormon “understanding” of God himself, the core of the faith, that sets them apart from not only Christianity but from even Judaism and the entire word of God from the beginning of time. God to the Mormon, as you know, was once a man, is now one among many gods, is still in a man’s body, lives near a planet around the star Kolob, can only be at one place at one time since he is material . . . etc. The Mormon knows nothing of the creator God that has existed always . . . the eternal God. So the Mormon offers no relationship with God at all but with a creation, whatever that creation is, whether real or imaginary.
“IF there are other gods, it does not concern us.”
Well, when your missionary friends come to my door each year, and sit in my living room sipping glasses of ice water (I don’t offer caffeinated or alcoholic beverages to them), they acknowledge that your god had his own god, so there isn’t any “if” there.
But they do say that his god, and all the other gods, don’t concern members of the LDS.
However, that’s not monotheism. It’s henotheism, the belief that one must worship only one god of all the gods that exist.
The God of Christianity is Supreme, uncreated, Creator ex nihilio, without beginning, without any initial “organization,” elevation or exaltation from another state, without peer or superior. He is the Divinity, He is the Uncreated Creator of all, all else is non-divine, all else is created.
The god of the LDS and the God of Christianity are ontologically different beings. One of these beings, the god of the LDS, is part and parcel of creation itself, merely an exalted part of the universe, but not fundamentally transcendent. The other being, the God of Christianity, is Lord of all that is, Creator of all that is, transcendent, unchanging, eternal.
sitetest
“Matthew 7:21-24
21. “Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22. Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
23. Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”
Jesus can be so MEAN and JUDGMENTAL sometimes.
The term "tore down" is vague and ambiguous. I presume when you use it, you mean "condemn."
If so, there are numerous passages which renounce all faiths other than the one proclaimed by Christ. You can start with the ones listed in my previous post HERE. From there, you may want to carry on with a good topical Bible, or a good concordance, or any of the Pauline Epistles (starting with Galatians), or Jude, or pretty much the entire book of Revelation.
>but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven
And yet there are some who claim to follow Christ and believe they can get there without any works.
Go figure.
Huh?
Is a moose an airplane?
Mormons are no more Christian than Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Scientologists, or Jehovah's Witnesses.
Mormons are, well, Mormons. Period.
If you have any doubt, I recommend you reread my post HERE.
By the way, did you notice the word “henotheistic” used above? I think it is a clarifying word when discussing Mormon theology.
I’d be loathe to accept Wikipedia as an authority on my own Church.
Even to admit to the possibility of other gods is to be polytheistic, in that one does not accept the fundamental claim of monotheism, that there is only One God, that there are no other beings with a divine nature, and He is the uncreated Lord and creator ex nihilo of all that exists other than Himself.
Here’s the deal. Here are some questions where the differences, I think, differ between Christianity and the LDS:
What’s the deal with the LDS god?
Is he the creator ex nihilo of all that exists?
Did he exist from all eternity as God?
Was he once - prior to his godhood - like us?
Was he once - prior to his godhood - a non-divine being?
Whether it’s relevant or not, does he have a god?
About Jesus - in the LDS imagining, is he the co-eternal Word, of one in being with the Father, or is he a being created or organized by the LDS father god?
Was there once a time when he was not god?
Was there once a time when he was not, at least, not as Jesus?
We won’t even get into questions about the Holy Spirit.
These questions, I think, yield different answers between Christian belief and LDS belief, and they go to the ontological nature of God, meaning - the god whom you identify is not the Christian God.
“Note that the Catholic church is also noted as possibly falling into the definition. I also read that Islam criticizes Christianity for claiming that the Father has a Son as it is clear evidence of two gods and thus polytheistic.”
I don’t much care what is said by a religion that springs forth from the satanic revelation of Lucifer to Mohammed.
I will note that there are non-trinitarian Christians who are not polytheistic.
Finally, I'm not trying to persuade you to stop being a member of the LDS. I'm not trying to persuade you that I'm right and you're wrong.
I'm not really trying to persuade you of anything at all.
Rather, I'm trying to point out why the Catholic Church does not accept the notion that the LDS organization is Christian or that the LDS god is God.
And the reasons set forth are pretty much accepted by nearly all other Christians churches and communities.
You don't have to accept or believe what we think, only understand that it's what we think, and why we think it.
What you DO need to accept is that the religious Churches, ecclesial communities, and organizations representing upwards of 90+% of Christians do not accept that the LDS god is God, or that the LDS organization is part of Christianity.
Whether you agree with us or not.
sitetest
Henotheistim commonly refers to belief in one god without denying the existence of others.
As explained with annotations HERE, Mormons are polytheistic and believe in countless gods.
The term henotheistic does not clarify, nor is it even applicable to, Mormonism.
I did not "judge" his faith. I "surmised" that religion is not that important to him based upon his statements that in choosing a man for president, his religion would matter to him at all.
sur·mise (s
r-m
z
)
So who are you to judge me?
And who are you to accuse me of judging?
Just who are you, anyway?
Since 90% or more of Mormon Republicans voted for Romney, do you think that one of the primary reasons that those Mormons voted overwhelmingly and eagerly for Romney was because he was a Mormon.
Be honest.
The dictionary definitions seem a little off from the meaning ascribed by the creator of the word.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism
Either way, if Mormons are polytheistic, they aren't henotheistic. The two terms are mutually exclusive.
Huh? If henotheism means believing there are many gods but worshipping only one (or in the Mormon case I guess, 2?) then it applies.
If one gives the LDS the benefit of the doubt on how they view the “godhead” and the three beings that comprise it, one can count them as henotheistic.
Nonetheless, henotheism is a species of polytheism, in that the very nature of one’s god is radically different if one admits to the existence of other gods.
sitetest
No, I do not need to proved “proof” of where I found the definition to Christianity.
You asked for a definition and I gave one, yet you dispute it. Thats fine, of course it is your right.
What I find interesting is your desperation to prove LDS are Christians regardless of the arguments that they are not in the traditional sense.
From my experience LDS do not follow the teachings of Christ but of Joe Smith.
From my experience LDS are not monotheists because they do not believe in the the Hold Trinity but separate The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit, that makes them not monotheists.
I wish you well in your quest to justify that LDS are Christians, I profoundly disagree.
I agree with both of you.
However, any way we want to split theological hairs, Mormons aren't Christian. No way. No how.
That’s fine. If you can’t back up your facts and opinions with authority, then I will take it as that: your opinion.
Your choice.
>Mormons aren’t Christian. No way. No how
What definition to you use for Christian?
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