You can assume that the reformers were similar to the pagans that persecuted and tortured the Early Church fathers.
FK-”” I DO understand that you believe the Eucharist is a never ending sacrifice, that is my criticism! :) The Bible says that Christ died ONCE!””
The Bible DOES NOT limit Christ to time,FK. You do!
The Catholic Church also believes that Christ died only once,the difference is that you limit Christ to time.
We, are in time, and to us it would seem that this one sacrifice was consummated 2000 years ago. GOD, however is outside of time and space.
Everything is now in GOD’s eyes, and so we are taken back to that one sacrifice as if it were happening now at each and every Mass.
The Catholic Church teaches that the sacrifice on the Cross was a complete and perfect sacrifice of the Lamb of GOD, offered once.
St. Paul bears witness that the sacrificial rite which Christ instituted at the Last Supper is to be perpetuated, and that it is not only important for man's sanctification, but is the principal factor in man's final redemption.
In 1Cor 11:23-26, St. Paul told how, at the Last Supper, Our Lord said: “For as often as you shall eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until He comes.”
During the Breaking of the Bread, we say twice, “Lamb of GOD, you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us,” and a third time, “Lamb of GOD, you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace.”Thus at every Mass the faithful have a new opportunity to worship God with this one perfect sacrifice and to absorb more of Christ's saving and sanctifying grace of Calvary. This grace is infinite, and the faithful should continuously grow in it. The Mass is offered again and again, because of our imperfect capacity to receive.
The holy sacrifice of the Mass fulfills the Old Testament prophecy...
‘For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts’. (Mal 1:11).
The Sacrifice of the Mass is offered every day throughout the world, and in every Mass the only truly clean oblation is offered, that is, Christ Himself; thus the Mass is the perfect fulfillment of this prophecy.
FK-””Then your extra-Scriptural tradition must be very important to you””
Yes ,FK, Christ is everything to me,being that the Eucharist IS Christ and without Him I can do nothing.
It's only “extra scriptural” interpretations of scripture that lead someone to deny that Christ cannot be literally present in the Eucharist.
Not much has changed in over 2000 years later. There are still those who attack the Church that Christ gave us,weather by persecution in places like China or by the ignorant who twist the scriptures to create division.
No matter how hard they try the Catholic Church still stands and through the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the faithful produces such loving people like Mother Teresa,Saint Benedicta the cross(Martyred at Auschwitz)http://www.ewtn.com/faith/edith_stein.htm and a whole host of others throughout history
I encourage you to read about the life of Edith Stein (Saint Benedicta) I believe it will help you to understand the Catholic Faith better,Dear Brother.
Here is a her novena to the Holy Spirit.
It is so beautiful!
Novena to the Holy Spirit
by St. Edith Stein
1. Who are you, sweet light, that fills me
And illumines the darkness of my heart?
You lead me like a mother's hand,
And should you let go of me,
I would not know how to take another step.
You are the space
That embraces my being and buries it in yourself.
Away from you it sinks into the abyss
Of nothingness, from which you raised it to the light.
You, nearer to me than I to myself
And more interior than my most interior
And still impalpable and intangible
And beyond any name:
Holy Spirit eternal love!
2. Are you not the sweet manna
That from the Son's heart
Overflows into my heart,
The food of angels and the blessed?
He who raised himself from death to life,
He has also awakened me to new life
From the sleep of death.
And he gives me new life from day to day,
And at some time his fullness is to stream through me,
Life of your life indeed, you yourself:
Holy Spirit eternal life!
3. Are you the ray
That flashes down from the eternal Judge's throne
And breaks into the night of the soul
That had never known itself?
Mercifully relentlessly
It penetrates hidden folds.
Alarmed at seeing itself,
The self makes space for holy fear,
The beginning of that wisdom
That comes from on high
And anchors us firmly in the heights,
Your action,
That creates us anew:
Holy Spirit ray that penetrates everything!
4. Are you the spirit's fullness and the power
By which the Lamb releases the seal
Of God's eternal decree?
Driven by you
The messengers of judgement ride through the world
And separate with a sharp sword
The kingdom of light from the kingdom of night.
Then heaven becomes new and new the earth,
And all finds its proper place
Through your breath:
Holy Spirit victorious power!
5. Are you the master who builds the eternal
cathedral,
Which towers from the earth through the heavens?
Animated by you, the columns are raised high
And stand immovably firm.
Marked with the eternal name of God,
They stretch up to the light,
Bearing the dome,
Which crowns the holy cathedral,
Your work that encircles the world:
Holy Spirit God's molding hand!
6. Are you the one who created
the unclouded mirror
Next to the Almighty's throne,
Like a crystal sea,
In which Divinity lovingly looks at itself?
You bend over the fairest work of your creation,
And radiantly your own gaze
Is illumined in return.
And of all creatures the pure beauty
Is joined in one in the dear form
Of the Virgin, your immaculate bride:
Holy Spirit Creator of all!
7. Are you the sweet song of love
And of holy awe
That eternally resounds around the triune throne,
That weds in itself the clear chimes
of each and every being?
The harmony,
That joins together the members to the Head,
In which each one
Finds the mysterious meaning of his being blessed
And joyously surges forth,
Freely dissolved in your surging:
Holy Spirit eternal jubilation
LOL! Our side doesn't claim the superiority of men over other men (and even God!). Only your side does that.
FK-”” I DO understand that you believe the Eucharist is a never ending sacrifice, that is my criticism! :) The Bible says that Christ died ONCE!””
The Bible DOES NOT limit Christ to time,FK. You do!
But the Bible DOES limit US to time as finite creatures of God on earth. Did Divine Christ DIE on the cross? No, "Christ Man" did, and He died ONCE AND FOR ALL, and then was resurrected. Do you acknowledge that He was resurrected? If you do then why do you have Him every day still slowly dying on the cross? Why can't you folks get passed that? He died once and He rose once. Somehow that doesn't compute in Catholic theology. Christ isn't still up there, STF, it happened WITHIN time, and now it's done. It is FINISHED!
We, are in time, and to us it would seem that this one sacrifice was consummated 2000 years ago. GOD, however is outside of time and space.
Then why do you DRAG God back within time and space every day at your Mass? God never asked for this, but maybe He didn't understand who was in charge down here. :)
Everything is now in GOD’s eyes, and so we are taken back to that one sacrifice as if it were happening now at each and every Mass.
No, we aren't taken anywhere, we remain in time and space. It is YOU ALL who are dragging Christ away from the right hand of God, "as if ...".
The Catholic Church teaches that the sacrifice on the Cross was a complete and perfect sacrifice of the Lamb of GOD, offered once.
That's not what you practice because then there would be no need to re-present it. Remember it, yes. Re-present it, no. That is doing the same sacrifice again. You call the Eucharist a sacrifice. We do not call the Lord's Supper a sacrifice.
St. Paul bears witness that the sacrificial rite which Christ instituted at the Last Supper is to be perpetuated, and that it is not only important for man's sanctification, but is the principal factor in man's final redemption. In 1Cor 11:23-26, St. Paul told how, at the Last Supper, Our Lord said: “For as often as you shall eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until He comes.”
It is a SHOWING of belief, not accomplishing added salvation by works and ritual. Your side goes way beyond a showing of belief, you are making sacrifices in hopes they will get you salvation. That is not doing something "in memory". Paul was making no reference to a salvific act, he was talking about in memory. Paul talked about salvation being by grace through faith, NOT by the performance of rituals.
Thus at every Mass the faithful have a new opportunity to worship God with this one perfect sacrifice and to absorb more of Christ's saving and sanctifying grace of Calvary. This grace is infinite, and the faithful should continuously grow in it. The Mass is offered again and again, because of our imperfect capacity to receive.
This proves that you believe that God's grace is ineffectual, unless man gives his approval. Man decides how powerful God's grace is, or more importantly a FEW men make that decision. That elevates man above God. Does your Magisterium presume the power to declare and determine how far and straight Tiger Woods can hit a golf ball? No, but it DOES presume to declare and determine how and when and to what degree God can dispense His saving grace. Interesting, and ALL this without a shred of Biblical support.
The holy sacrifice of the Mass fulfills the Old Testament prophecy... [Mal. 1:11]
Oh, please. With that level of typology anyone could make the Bible support Nazism. :)
It's only “extra scriptural” interpretations of scripture that lead someone to deny that Christ cannot be literally present in the Eucharist.
Oh, He COULD be, it's not a matter of impossibility. It would just mean that the Bible would have say and stand for MUCH different things than it does now. I don't deny Eucharistic theology on my own authority, but on the authority of God's revelation to us.
Not much has changed in over 2000 years later. There are still those who attack the Church that Christ gave us, whether by persecution in places like China or by the ignorant who twist the scriptures to create division.
AMEN to every word, STF. It is very sad.
No matter how hard they try the Catholic Church still stands and through the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the faithful produces such loving people like Mother Teresa,Saint Benedicta the cross(Martyred at Auschwitz)http://www.ewtn.com/faith/edith_stein.htm and a whole host of others throughout history.
I have no doubt of it. I am sure there are many many Catholics who either are now or will be in Heaven. I believe the same of Protestants, even though that belief is NOT echoed by the Magisterium.
I encourage you to read about the life of Edith Stein (Saint Benedicta) I believe it will help you to understand the Catholic Faith better,Dear Brother. Here is a her novena to the Holy Spirit. It is so beautiful!
Substantially, it IS beautiful. Thank you for posting it. :) On what "Divine Holy Spirit" means, we probably essentially agree. I think our differences stem largely from the role man plays in the universe, although those differences necessarily will affect God's role too. However, this particular novena was obviously not written to get into those differences, so I can appreciate it. :)