Huh?!? Christ came to give hope to the whole world, not only "His" people.
Once again, if that is so then either Christ is a colossal failure or a satanic teaser. Christ came already knowing the specific names of all those who ever lived who would never believe. Why would He string them along?
That still doesn't explain why divide a son form his father. That makes no sense.
Because non-believers pose a temptation to believers, especially among family members. We love our family members, but if we put them in front of God and compromise our faith, then believers could slide away from the faith. That could turn us from being useful to God to useless to God. That is obviously not good. :)
FK: A true believer will be despised by the world. And even those in his own family who are of the world will hate him.
The Muslims would love this. I think they could see themselves as "true believers" by this formula.
Well, I couldn't care less if the Muslims like it or not. :) I just go by scripture:
John 15:19 : If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.
I'll just let the Gospels speak for themselves.
FK: It is better to be hated than concede the true faith to make peace.
Oh boy! That sounds positively jihadist!
Then from now on I will assume that you think it is better to concede your faith than to be hated by others. Is this an attitude in all of Orthodoxy?
FK: To carry one's own cross to his death was burdensome, and so the teaching was that we all must bear our own burdens in faith. Isn't that easier to believe than "Matthew lied"?
People didn't carry their crosses (weighs over 300 lbs), but maybe crossbars. And no one at that time associated being crucified a punishment for faith. Crucifixion was reserved for hardened criminals.
That's non sequitur. Jesus made comparisons all the time. Do you deny He was making one here? I will assume you're sticking with "Matthew lied".
What are heavenly rewards, FK? Penthouse condos in the clouds with a view? :)
The Bible doesn't tell us exactly, so I don't know. The Bible just says they are judged separately from the salvation judgment.
Your heavenly reward is being saved. Your punishment is being lost.
The Bible says this:
1 Cor 3:10-15 : 10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
So according to this, there ARE two separate judgments.
FK: Once again, if that is so then either Christ is a colossal failure or a satanic teaser. Christ came already knowing the specific names of all those who ever lived who would never believe. Why would He string them along?
That's what the Bible says—for the whole world, for all mankind. Take it up with Him.
"and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world." [1 John 2:2]
Apparently that's what the Apostles believed and you believe what they wrote.
And if your theory is correct, why would the Bible say
"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent"? [Acts 17:30]
Was that a sign of a colossal failure or evidence of a satanic teaser, FK?
Or how about your favorite?
"even so through one act of righteousness there resulted in justification of life to all men." [Rom 5:18]
Surely you believe when Paul says it, don't you?
"...who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. [1 Tim 2:4]
or
"For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers."
or
"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men," [Titus 2:11]Obviously
even Paul here says that He is the Savior of all men especially but not exclusively of believers! I guess you will just have to get more instructions from the Reformed Police to explain these. :)
But all in all it seems that the Scriptures reflect (imagine!) what the Apostolic Church teaches! Are we reading the same Bible?
Kosta: That still doesn't explain why divide a son form his father. That makes no sense.
FK: Because non-believers pose a temptation to believers, especially among family members
That quote comes from Micah 7:6
"For son treats father contemptuously,
Daughter rises up against her mother,
Daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
A man's enemies are the men of his own household"
But what is Micah 7 about? It's about Israel in mystery..."the godly have been swept away" form the land, not one upright remains..." Either Israel described by Micah is morally corrupt, or he is suffering from a major case of depression.
Then he adds the following:
5 Do not trust a neighbor;
put no confidence in a friend.
Even with her who lies in your embrace
be careful of your words.
6 For a son dishonors his father,
a daughter rises up against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
a man's enemies are the members of his own household.
7 But as for me, I watch in hope for the LORD,
I wait for God my Savior;
my God will hear me.
Obviously this is not God speaking but a man about the sad state of moral demise of Israel. But Matthew choreographs it to make it look like God came down to earth to set a son against his father, and a daughter against her mother...
"For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" [Mat 10:35]
This is a completely altered meaning of the OT verse. It says Christ specifically came with the purpose of driving the wedge between them. The original, of course,had no such message.
FK: 15:19 : "if you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you."I'll just let the Gospels speak for themselves.
You know that's not why the world hates you or anyone else.
FK: It is better to be hated than concede the true faith to make peace.
Oh boy! That sounds positively jihadist!
FK: Then from now on I will assume that you think it is better to concede your faith than to be hated by others. Is this an attitude in all of Orthodoxy?
No, the Orthodox Church doesn't teach that we should concede faith in order not to be hated. I think Orthodoxy is a living proof of that principle, having suffered more than other churches, and is still suffering in places like Iraq, Kosovo, and Somalia. I was simply making an observation that your sweeping generalization can be applied by jihadists as well.
That's non sequitur. Jesus made comparisons all the time. Do you deny He was making one here? I will assume you're sticking with "Matthew lied".
No, the author we ascribe to Matthew wrote post facto (around 70 AD) when the expression "carry your cross" was already used as a synonym for suffering. We just know that Jesus did not use the word "carry your own cross" before it became a synonym for suffering because of His own Crucifixion. So, whoever wrote that verse didn't lie. He believed that's what Jesus would have said.
1 Cor 3:14..."If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames." So according to this, there ARE two separate judgments.
The book of Hebrews says otherwise. It says it is appointed for man to die once and then the judgment (9:27).
There is only one judgment. The nature of the judgment following physical death is the same judgment we will receive at the end of times. God doesn't change His mind.