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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; wmfights; Cvengr
FK: Acts 1:5 : For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

What does that mean? Baptiso in Greek means to dunk. How does one "dunk" with the Holy Spirit?

It means to be fully enveloped by the Holy Spirit, as in a water immersion. THAT is the baptism that is needed for salvation.

God is present everywhere and always, so we are always "immersed" in God. Our Baptism is followed by chrismation, anoint with the holy oil, and sealing the Spirit as they say. The Catholics do it at the age of reason. When the Orthodox mean Baptism, we understand that it is both water and oil/Spirit.

So, our Orthodox and Catholic Baptism is salvific if one believes. But in order to enter the Church, the Body of Christ, we must be cleansed of all sin and our hearts have to be regenerated.

Obviously not all become believers, just as not all adults eventually come to God. That's why Baptism and Faith are two essential requirements for salvation, not just Faith.

Without the grace that comes at that time, nothing else happens.

Agreed. The grace of Christ's sacrifice on the Cross was offered to the whole world. He died for everyone's sins, not just the sins of some. His death made it possible for all to come to God, but not everyone will.

6,560 posted on 07/19/2008 11:54:34 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; wmfights; Cvengr
God is present everywhere and always, so we are always "immersed" in God.

No, that cannot be true for you because you believe that water baptism saves. Therefore, you would have to say that everyone is saved and you know that isn't true. IOW, for you if everyone is always immersed in God, then water baptism would have no meaning.

When the Orthodox mean Baptism, we understand that it is both water and oil/Spirit.

Of course that is contrary to what Jesus said:

Acts 1:5 : For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

They are separate things. Being baptized in the Spirit involves faith. Infants cannot have faith, and no one can have it for them. The Bible does not speak of surrogate believers.

6,596 posted on 07/21/2008 12:03:41 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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