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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; wmfights
[On Matt 10:34-36...] Yeah, well that whole section makes no sense. Why would Christ come to divide a son from his father?

I think it means that Christ came to set His people apart from the wickedness of the world. A true believer will be despised by the world. And even those in his own family who are of the world will hate him. Another thing I think He is saying is that He doesn't want watered down Christianity. It is better to be hated than concede the true faith to make peace. There are plenty of people from all sides who have made concessions in this light.

Apparently, Matthew is using this rather strange approach to tell us in verse 38 that "whoever doesn't pick up the cross and follow" Christ "is not worthy of" Christ, suggesting we walk the way Christ walked and do what He did. The only problem with this supposed Jesus quote is that Christ would not have been crucified yet!, so what cross is He talking about?!?

Obviously, Matthew is writing after the fact and is making up a quote which Jesus would not have said (because it would have been before crucifixion) to make a point on something that doesn't make much sense (i.e. Christ did not come to bring peace!?!).

No, Matthew did not lie by making up a quote from Jesus. Jesus DID say it because He knew His listeners understood the principles of how a crucifixion worked. To carry one's own cross to his death was burdensome, and so the teaching was that we all must bear our own burdens in faith. Isn't that easier to believe than "Matthew lied"? :)

But one thing is clear: the rest of that section (verses 40 onward) is all about the rewards being works-based.

Heavenly rewards, yes. Salvation, no.

6,534 posted on 07/17/2008 2:24:13 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; wmfights
Kosta: [On Matt 10:34-36...] Yeah, well that whole section makes no sense. Why would Christ come to divide a son from his father?

FK:  I think it means that Christ came to set His people apart from the wickedness of the world


Huh?!? Christ came to give hope to the whole world, not only "His" people.  God is not partial. That still doesn't explain why divide a son form his father. That makes no sense.

A true believer will be despised by the world. And even those in his own family who are of the world will hate him

The Muslims would love this. I think they could see themselves as "true believers" by this formula.

It is better to be hated than concede the true faith to make peace

Oh boy! That sounds positively jihadist!

No, Matthew did not lie by making up a quote from Jesus. Jesus DID say it because He knew His listeners understood the principles of how a crucifixion worked

No one associated Crucifixion with suffering for the world. Crucixiction became a synonym for suffering, and Christ's sacrifice, we are to imitate after the fact. The verse in question was before the fact.

To carry one's own cross to his death was burdensome, and so the teaching was that we all must bear our own burdens in faith. Isn't that easier to believe than "Matthew lied"?

People didn't carry their crosses (weighs over 300 lbs), but maybe crossbars. And no one at that time associated being crucified a punishment for faith. Crucifixion was reserved for hardened criminals.

Heavenly rewards, yes. Salvation, no.

What are heavenly rewards, FK? Penthouse condos in the clouds with a view? :)

Your heavenly reward is being saved.  Your punishment is being lost.

6,551 posted on 07/18/2008 10:52:35 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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