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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; wmfights
Kosta: But, unlike Jesus, John preached angrily and violently. Jesus' message was fundamentally opposite of John's

FK: That just can't be right, or Jesus would not have said what He said about John. Yes, their styles were very different, but the message was essentially the same

That's news. Josephus (1st century) writes about John as being perceived as a rebel rouser and associates his beheading with the fear form Herod that he would start a rebellion.

Jesus never called for a rebellion. Nor did He preach angrily as John the Forerunner did.

If John's message was opposite to that of Jesus, then it could not "have fulfilled all righteousness" for John to baptize Him

Why did baptizing Jesus "fulfill all the righteousness?" Christ did not need to be baptized nor was He any more just after that.

Jesus calls him MORE than a prophet (Matt. 11:9)

What would that make him then? What is above a prophet if a prophet is a human being with whom God communicates and reveals His truths?

6,511 posted on 07/15/2008 10:00:06 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; wmfights
FK: That just can't be right, or Jesus would not have said what He said about John. Yes, their styles were very different, but the message was essentially the same.

That's news. Josephus (1st century) writes about John as being perceived as a rebel rouser and associates his beheading with the fear form Herod that he would start a rebellion.

That's STYLE and I said their styles were different. Jesus consented to being baptized by John. Jesus COULD NOT have done that if John's preaching was substantively at odds with His own, any more than you would consent to being baptized in my church.

FK: If John's message was opposite to that of Jesus, then it could not "have fulfilled all righteousness" for John to baptize Him.

Why did baptizing Jesus "fulfill all the righteousness?" Christ did not need to be baptized nor was He any more just after that.

Jesus said this in Matt. 3:15. While it does not appear to correspond to any OT prophecy, one possibility would be that it set Christ apart in order to begin His ministry. Baptism marked Him to begin His ministry in order to fulfill all righteousness.

FK: Jesus calls him MORE than a prophet (Matt. 11:9)

What would that make him then? What is above a prophet if a prophet is a human being with whom God communicates and reveals His truths?

I suppose it would make him just what Jesus said:

Matt 11:11 : I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist ; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

6,530 posted on 07/16/2008 11:48:43 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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