FK: What??? Jesus said the scriptures testify about Him. Jesus says He wants us to love Him. We must KNOW who we love. The scriptures tell us who Christ IS. How can this be so difficult?
Kosta: What does that have to do with everyone's "job" not being to know the scriptures? Christ left His Church to the Apostles to tend to the flock, knowing fully well that private interpretations lead to error, and Protestantism is a living proof of that.
If you believe it is committed unto you to love God, then congratulations, it is your "job" to know the scriptures. Jesus said the scriptures testify about Him, they help us KNOW Him. We cannot love whom we do not know. Do you believe that your extra-Biblical tradition is sufficient by itself to know God? For example, is it enough to know God through Mariology?
But wait, I think you have said that the only way to know God is through, in essence, the lines from Jesus' mouth in the Bible, however, that's STILL in the Bible. Isn't it your "job" to at least know those lines even if you "throw the rest of it out?"
There is solid agreement about God's word among Bible-believing Christians from many different denominations. We may disagree on some interpretations here or there, but nothing that prevents solid agreement on those core issues.
Sure there is, except they all "extract" different meanings from it, sufficiently different to create thousands of denominations that disagree on a variety of fundamental biblical issues, such as the free will, gays, ordination of women, Eucharist, even the Holy Trinity!
One can be an Arminian and be a Bible-believing Christian easily, but all those others you listed are clearly NOT Bible-believing Christians.
The amalgam of the so-called "Bible-believing" Christians includes people like LDS.
No they are not, they have created their own Bible. You have been interacting with Bible-beliving Christians of different faiths, even the non-Reformed, for years. If you don't think you can distinguish between all of us and a group like the Mormons, then it doesn't look like you're paying very close attention. :)
Why, FK, all who call themselves Christians are Bible-believing! They all base their belief on the Bible. :)
No, just as Jesus says, just mouthing the words by itself doesn't count ("Lord, Lord"). You know I am a Reformer. You also know that Alamo-Girl is not (neither would she call herself an Arminian I'll wager). Nevertheless, I have not a doubt but that she is a true Bible-believing Christian because I have read her postings and know one when I see one. I would NEVER confuse her with an LDS or any of the other groups you mentioned. :)
The Bible tells us that Jesus called for unity and not disunity.
That's too broad a brush:
Matt 10:34-36 : 34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— 36 a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'
In addition, think of the disagreement between Paul and Barnabas in Acts 15. They split and went their separate ways, and as a result MORE churches were founded. Accident? I don't think so.
Sure there is only one truth, and God wants all believers headed toward that truth, but that doesn't mean that by His design He doesn't have different paths for us to get there.
He established an Apostolic Church, not thousands of "churches."
He established HIS CHURCH, not one church of men lording its power over other Christians.
He left the faith in the hands of the Apostles in that Church; ...
He left the faith in the hands of others to carry on, but as to the faith itself, He left THAT in HIS OWN HANDS, He did not transfer it to fallible men to make whatever of it they wanted by adding to what God had made. That would defeat the whole thing. We saw how well it worked out in the OT when God allowed power to be held by human kings. For some reason, men decided that this time it would be different. Perhaps it was that the deciders also happened to be the kings! :)
Obviously He never told everyone should read the Bible.
Oh, obviously. I'm sure in Christ's omniscience He thought "Yeah, some guys are gonna make this thing up to add to the other junk some dead guys made up, but NAW, people shouldn't read it. They'll have extra-scriptural Tradition. They'll have oral teachings which of course are more reliable and better than anything written down way back then. Good enough. Reading will just confuse their minds." I'm sure that was it. :)
The Bible tells us of many individuals who didn't know Scriptures to whom it was committed to love God. One doesn't need Scriptures to love God. It seems to me that in your mind the Bible is the source of faith and love for God. More bibliolatry.
Jesus said the scriptures testify about Him, they help us KNOW Him.
Well, they announce the coming of the messiah, but it was not clear what He would be like, for the Jews believed it wold be a warior-king and not someone Christ-like. No one who knew the Scriptures recognized Christ from the Scriptures!
Do you believe that your extra-Biblical tradition is sufficient by itself to know God? For example, is it enough to know God through Mariology?
Extra-biblical tradition, according to whose biblical tradition? The 16th century renegade priest's? Or the Bible put together by Christ's own Apostolic Church 1,200 years earlier?
You cannot fully appreciate Christ without Mariology.
But wait, I think you have said that the only way to know God is through, in essence, the lines from Jesus' mouth in the Bible, however, that's STILL in the Bible. Isn't it your "job" to at least know those lines even if you "throw the rest of it out?"
I don't think I would have said that. We certainly can not know what was Jesus like on this earth without the Gospels.
And it's not my "job" to know the Bible. It is the job of those who were ordained to give that knowledge to others. Just as with the Ethiopian eunuch. And Christ makes that very clear when He says:
For the "job" of everyone in the Church is not to preach and teach, or to know the scriptures.
One can be an Arminian and be a Bible-believing Christian easily, but all those others you listed are clearly NOT Bible-believing Christians
Why, because their "bible" doesn't fit the man-made bible of Luther's? The Church established which books will be in the Bible and the Protestants rejected some and made their own. By your definition, none of the Protestants/Baptists could possibly be Bible-believing Christians since they don't use the Bible used by the original Church, which includes the so-called Apocryphal books and the Septuagint.
In other words, it's all what man's definition you are willing to accept as "true," that determines who is "Bible-believing" and who is not. If you deny the authority of the Church then anything goes.
Kosta: The amalgam of the so-called "Bible-believing" Christians includes people like LDS.
FK: No they are not, they have created their own Bible. You have been interacting with Bible-beliving Christians of different faiths, even the non-Reformed, for years
You just prove my point above. I have dealt with people who call themselves Bible-believing Christians but who also made up their own Bible. So, why should I treat these so-called Bible-believing Christians any different than the LDS?
None of them uses the Bible put together by the original Church.
Kosta: The Bible tells us that Jesus called for unity and not disunity.
FK:That's too broad a brush
I don't think so, FK. To be one as He and the Father are one is not really much of a wiggle room.
Sure there is only one truth, and God wants all believers headed toward that truth, but that doesn't mean that by His design He doesn't have different paths for us to get there.
He speaks only of one way, His way. And He even reminds us that the path is narrow, not broad.
He established HIS CHURCH, not one church of men lording its power over other Christians
Go back to Paul's 1 Cor 12:28 and read it again. No one says anyone was lording over other men; it merely says that God appointed different people to do different things in the Church.
He left the faith in the hands of others to carry on, but as to the faith itself, He left THAT in HIS OWN HANDS
The faith was delivered once and left in the hands of the Apostles and those who followed in their footsteps to safeguard.
Kosta: Obviously He never told everyone should read the Bible.
Oh, obviously. I'm sure in Christ's omniscience He thought "Yeah, some guys are gonna make this thing up to add to the other junk some dead guys made up, but NAW, people shouldn't read it.
Well, rant all you want. He never did say we should read the Bible. Rather He told the disciples they should teach all nations and baptize...again, Jesus did not conduct Bible study classes and feel-good sessions and discussions.
Good post, FK. Thank you.