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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock

Yes, assuming that there remains no atonement for that sin

Do you believe there is atonement after death? One must repent of a sin in order for that sin to be forgiven. That must take place before death.

I am afraid some Christians place repentance on the back burner and simply assume they will be saved no matter what (back to that 'pecca fortiter' which I will reply on some time in the future when I have more time). Only a devil could devise such a deceitful belief to give false hope.

While salvation may not be at issue, punishment and discipline certainly are

That's what I thought some Christians believe and you prove my point above. What punishment can be worse than eternal separation from God, an eternal spiritual darkness? It seems to me that some only see the atonement part, and not the repentance part that the Bible speaks of. There is no forgiveness without repentance, FK. The sooner you realize that's the message of the entire Bible (even the OT), the sooner you will understand Christ's accomplishment on the Cross, which made it possible for us to be saved.

The regenerated mind should not want to habitually sin because the regenerated mind wants to please God.

It's irrelevant. The regenerated man still sins. But the regenerated man will also repent of his sins, not in order to buy his way into heaven but because he regrets having turned away from God, because he places God first and all the wordily things second, because He loves God and doesn't wish to sin against Him. The key is love for God, not fear of what level of punishment He will exact. The key is shame for our ungratefulness to God, because every time we sin we are showing our ingratitude.

6,396 posted on 07/06/2008 8:17:02 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; irishtenor; HarleyD
One must repent of a sin in order for that sin to be forgiven. That must take place before death.

Very true.

And it is just as true that the elect of God will repent of his sins.

We are not forgiven because we repent. We repent because we have been purchased with a price and Christ will lose none whom the Father gave Him to bring to Him.

We repent because God has freely, mercifully given us new eyes to see our sins in order to loathe every one of them, and therefore we ask for forgiveness of our sins, all the while knowing Christ has already paid for them in full.

The reprobate whose eyes remain blind to the truth of both his own sins and the mercy of God will not repent nor believe because His heart is still made of stone.

"Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.

Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire." -- Deuteronomy 4:35-36

...the sooner you will understand Christ's accomplishment on the Cross, which made it possible for us to be saved.

And there is the difference between the "possibility" preached by the EO and RCC and the fully-accomplished will of God through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ preached by the true church.

Christ did not come to merely offer salvation. He came to accomplish salvation for all those whom God entrusted to Him.

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy...

[Christ] Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls." -- 1 Peter 2:9-10,24-25


6,401 posted on 07/07/2008 11:11:33 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; wmfights
Do you believe there is atonement after death?

No, never. We have:

Heb 9:27-28 : 27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Along with this we have the parable in Luke 16:19-31. The chasm between Heaven and hell can never be crossed. Further, we are told that Jesus took away sins once. It does not say some sins, or only past sins, just sins. All sins. Jesus' sacrifice was indeed a powerful one, not a weak one that only made a partial payment. It wasn't Jesus' style to do things half-baked.

What punishment can be worse than eternal separation from God, an eternal spiritual darkness?

Nothing, but what does that have to do with anything? In terms of being saved or lost, man doesn't have the payment for even one sin. Only Christ can make the payment for us and He DOES! But that doesn't mean that we won't also receive temporal punishments for sin during life on earth.

It seems to me that some only see the atonement part, and not the repentance part that the Bible speaks of.

As Dr. E. said so well, BECAUSE He atoned for us we can repent. And all of the elect WILL repent.

There is no forgiveness without repentance, FK. The sooner you realize that's the message of the entire Bible (even the OT), the sooner you will understand Christ's accomplishment on the Cross, which made it possible for us to be saved.

That's a very small accomplishment, in fact it's more like a punt. But we see again how God must be made smaller so that man can be made greater. That is the natural desire of man as he is born. We see Christ's sacrifice as being far more important and valuable.

FK: The regenerated mind should not want to habitually sin because the regenerated mind wants to please God.

It's irrelevant. The regenerated man still sins. But the regenerated man will also repent of his sins, not in order to buy his way into heaven but because he regrets having turned away from God, because he places God first and all the wordily things second, because He loves God and doesn't wish to sin against Him.

Isn't that what I JUST said??? :)

6,404 posted on 07/07/2008 5:21:14 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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