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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock
KOsta: Christ teaches to love our enemies , yet He hates His? FK: Yes, God's only enemy is sin, embodied by satan. Remember, we are taught to love the person, but to HATE the sin. There IS a difference with us humans, but with satan it is one and the same

Now you are beginning to sound positively Zoroastrian! Talk about meandering theology...Reformed theology says that God intentionally created Satan for His own purpose because somehow this God of love absolutely can't accomplish anything without the evil one!

Now you are telling me that Gd absolutely hates this absolutely needed accomplisher of God's "plan" and that, in fact, God created His own enemy" not only to use but also to hate! Oh boy! This is nuttier than Star Trek.

Aboslute love hates no one, FK. Those who hate God, hate Him for His love.

The Bible says that Judas was deceived by satan, in fact satan entered into him

We agree on that.

satan only acts according to his nature, pure evil

Okay, and where does his evil nature come from? Who created that according to the Reformed theology? Was it not God? In other words, the Reformed theology teaches that God created pure evil, that He is ultimately the source and architecht of evil.

God allowed him to do specific evil in specific places, and the final result, along with a million other occurrences, was the salvation of God's children

And I thought God can simply change our hearts...but from the way you write it seems He really likes and needs evil. That's a very alien god you describe, alien to Christ I mean.

6,302 posted on 06/25/2008 3:41:48 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper

***Reformed theology says that God intentionally created Satan for His own purpose because somehow this God of love absolutely can’t accomplish anything without the evil one!***

Odd, isn’t it? We are accused of worshipping an ineffectual God that cannot accomplish our eternal salvation with a wave of the magic wand, yet the Reformed God must create Satan in order to do His dirty work.

***Aboslute love hates no one, FK. Those who hate God, hate Him for His love.***

Either God is an infinite God of love and mercy or He is not.

***satan only acts according to his nature, pure evil

Okay, and where does his evil nature come from? Who created that according to the Reformed theology? Was it not God? In other words, the Reformed theology teaches that God created pure evil, that He is ultimately the source and architecht of evil.***

The WCF teaches that God created evil, yet is not the cause of evil.

***God allowed him to do specific evil in specific places, and the final result, along with a million other occurrences, was the salvation of God’s children

And I thought God can simply change our hearts...but from the way you write it seems He really likes and needs evil. That’s a very alien god you describe, alien to Christ I mean.***

More oddness. The Reformed God allows and takes pleasure in evil, yet is not the cause and does not approve of evil. The more that I scrutinize the WCF, the more weaseling I see and the more evil it appears.


6,311 posted on 06/25/2008 7:16:00 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock
Reformed theology says that God intentionally created Satan for His own purpose because somehow this God of love absolutely can't accomplish anything without the evil one!

I never said anything like that. God did create satan, but it wasn't out of need. That is your addition to what you want to believe about Reformed theology.

Now you are telling me that God absolutely hates this absolutely needed accomplisher of God's "plan" and that, in fact, God created His own enemy" not only to use but also to hate! Oh boy! This is nuttier than Star Trek.

LOL! OK, from now on I will consider the Orthodox God as a satan lover. I will also assume that the Orthodox version of Christ died on the cross FOR SATAN!!! We are taught to love our brothers so I also assume that the Orthodox God wants and commands you to LOVE SATAN!!! Wonderful, and quite illuminating. The Bible says:

Prov 6:16-19 : 16 There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, 19 a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

satan embodies ALL of these things and more evil besides. The enemies Jesus is talking about are HUMAN enemies. According to your above we should pray for satan (Matt. 5:44), and we should do good to satan (Luke 6:27), and we should bless satan (v. 28). That sounds like a wonderfully Godly plan of salvation for you and I wish you the best of luck with it. I'm afraid it's not for me though. :)

FK: satan only acts according to his nature, pure evil.

Okay, and where does his evil nature come from? Who created that according to the Reformed theology? Was it not God? In other words, the Reformed theology teaches that God created pure evil, that He is ultimately the source and architect of evil.

I think it is fairly well accepted that satan was created as an angel, so he was not created evil but with the potential for evil. Once he chose evil over God his nature changed. If the human nature can change it certainly is possible for an angel's nature to change. Just as God did not prevent Adam from sinning, although He could have, so also He did not prevent satan from choosing the dark side. So, satan's evil nature came into being by satan's own hands.

And I thought God can simply change our hearts...but from the way you write it seems He really likes and needs evil.

That's an odd thing to say since you just told me that your God loves satan, who IS evil. :)

6,344 posted on 06/29/2008 1:44:14 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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