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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock
Kosta:But Holy can be misunderstood, or incompletely grasped.

FK: One cannot claim a story is being misunderstood when one claims that it is manifestly FALSE. :) Part of the very nature of God is given to us plainly in the OT and you reject it entirely. That's not a misunderstanding.

Holy is that which is from God; perfection is only in God. If we assign holiness only to perfection, then nothing would be holy, except God. If you want to use that as a criterion, I have no problem with that, as I don't believe anything is holy but God.

What we often mean by "holy" is blessed, anointed, or "touched by God." Those who have faith and love God are blessed; those who are merciful, and pure in heart, and poor in spirit, those who can love their enemies, etc. are "holy" in that they are "infected" with God's grace. But that doesn't make them worship or act or think in a perfect way; we are all sinners, and therefore unholy.

We also refer to the Bible as "Holy." For the same reason, it is a collection of books about what we know of Holiness in an imperfect way. Otherwise we would be doing what so many so-called Bible-believing Christians do: we would worship a book. Instead, we kiss the Gospels because they are precious to our faith and as an expression of our love for Christ without whom we would not have it.

We are more concerned what the message is than what the story is. The message is what we hear in homilies, the lesson we take home with us for that day, so that we may abide in the holiness of our Lord, and imitate Him in our hearts and deeds.

6,284 posted on 06/24/2008 8:10:50 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
We are more concerned what the message is than what the story is. The message is what we hear in homilies, the lesson we take home with us for that day, so that we may abide in the holiness of our Lord, and imitate Him in our hearts and deeds.

I like this.

There is the story of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf". Was there a real boy and a real wolf and did that story actually take place? Who knows? In the grand scheme of things, it really isn't that important. What is important is is the MESSAGE True? Sure it is - 100%.

6,287 posted on 06/24/2008 12:50:33 PM PDT by getoffmylawn (Now it is 1984. Knock knock at your front door. It's the Suede Denim Secret Police...)
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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; savedbygrace
Holy is that which is from God; perfection is only in God. If we assign holiness only to perfection, then nothing would be holy, except God. If you want to use that as a criterion, I have no problem with that, as I don't believe anything is holy but God.

That's all I need to know. None of your clergy are holy men. I will believe you since you are telling me that now. :) As for me, I agree with your premises above, but not your conclusion.

We also refer to the Bible as "Holy." For the same reason, it is a collection of books about what we know of Holiness in an imperfect way. Otherwise we would be doing what so many so-called Bible-believing Christians do: we would worship a book.

So anyone who doesn't agree with you about how corrupt the Bible is worships the Bible? OK. Can you give us an example of how one of us worships the Bible? For example, do we pray to the Bible? Or, do we consider the physical Book, the one I hold in my hand, a Mediatrix and Redemptrix to our salvation? Do we construct statues of the Bible which we kneel before? Anything like that?

We are more concerned what the message is than what the story is.

When a story is clearly presented as being factually true, and then one divorces that factual truth from the truth of the message, then the message is relativized into meaning absolutely anything the reader wants it to mean. The desired interpretation becomes unassailable, since any inconvenient facts in the story can be simply ignored at will. Even with parables, the stories are meant to be taken as internally factually true, that is, assuming there was such a man who did thus and so, etc. Declaring most of the OT to be myth is one way of divorcing these truths. Any facts in the story can be dismissed at will, and are, in order to arrive at the reader's desired conclusions. This is even if the actual words of the story teach something opposite of what the reader wants to hear.

6,330 posted on 06/28/2008 2:57:02 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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