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To: MarkBsnr; kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; irishtenor; stfassisi
[Re: 1 Cor 9:25-27] Paul is saying here that if he falters, he might not attain salvation. No problem with Christ’s message, or Paul’s.

Another true statement, but not indicating that he doesn't have assurance. He displays the correct mindset of Christians. That is, do NOT rely on the plain meaning of OSAS. God has plans for us and commands us to obey Him. That does not stop at the point of belief. Paul affirms that perseverance must happen, but does not get into the theology of the mechanism here.

FK: Sometimes, yes. A hardship can be a discipline from God, or it could be God allowing satan to act for other reasons. Sometimes it is reasonably easy to tell the difference, but sometimes not.***

I don’t see it. Do you have examples?

Sure, take the two we just talked about recently, AIDS and 9/11. COULD those have been God's wrath against certain people? Yes, "possibly", but we can't know for sure. There is a precedent with Sodom and Gomorrah, but again we can't declare it one way or the other. An easier example would be like me stealing a $5 item from work with no chance of being caught. Then I get caught and they fire me. I would consider it highly likely that it was because of God as a discipline.

[Re: Matt 10:22] The verse says that those who remain until the end will be saved. Cause and effect. If 1) endure, then 2) saved. Not vice versa.

This verse is simply a true statement and uses "saved" in the future tense. I thought Catholics agree that the Bible also uses "save" in the present tense. That would be before any enduring is done. (You are arguing that one can lose his salvation, meaning he already had it.) So, we have to be careful about which sense of "save" we are talking about. Therefore, in the totality of scriptures, my contention that those who are saved WILL endure is just as reasonable.

6,181 posted on 06/05/2008 3:42:41 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; stfassisi

***FK: Sometimes, yes. A hardship can be a discipline from God, or it could be God allowing satan to act for other reasons. Sometimes it is reasonably easy to tell the difference, but sometimes not.***

I don’t see it. Do you have examples?***

Um, Job?


6,182 posted on 06/05/2008 3:51:44 PM PDT by irishtenor (Check out my blog at http://boompa53.blogspot.com/)
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