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To: Forest Keeper

***It is not contradictory. It is true by experiential perception. ***

Back to the Gnosticism? It is not apparent to others.

***If I am of the elect then God ordained me to come to Christ from the foundations of the world. And when that point came I asked Christ into my heart with a free will. ***

I thought that the Reformed view was that nobody could ask God to come into his heart because all men were made evil and unable to do so until the Holy Spirit made the change. Therefore something doesn’t fit. Either you can ask Christ to come into your heart with a free will (and the corollary to that is that you can decline to ask with the same free will), or that something is wrong with the Reformed view.


6,034 posted on 06/02/2008 6:20:04 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr; aruanan; kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; irishtenor
FK: ***If I am of the elect then God ordained me to come to Christ from the foundations of the world. And when that point came I asked Christ into my heart with a free will. ***

I thought that the Reformed view was that nobody could ask God to come into his heart because all men were made evil and unable to do so until the Holy Spirit made the change. Therefore something doesn’t fit.

We are both correct, there is no contradiction. I just didn't list EVERY step. First God ordains, then He changes the heart, and then we reach "that point".

Either you can ask Christ to come into your heart with a free will (and the corollary to that is that you can decline to ask with the same free will), or that something is wrong with the Reformed view.

Then we disagree on what "free will" means. I do not think it ever includes the freedom to defeat God in His will, but your side seems to require it. When God changes a heart it is definitionally true that His will is for that person to come. That person always will come with what I call a free will. So the difference between our sides is whether "free" means free to defeat God or not.

6,063 posted on 06/02/2008 2:56:15 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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