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To: kosta50; stfassisi; Forest Keeper

Exactly as Jesus puts it.

You MUST believe in Him and in the Father. You MUST accept the Grace of God.

But you also MUST choose good over evil, using every gift that God gives as strength and guide.

***The Bishop his the nail on the head when he said that without free will, there is no meaning to our allegiance. The Reformed retort, then God is weak and it’s not about His glory. This is the same mindset that taunted Christ on the cross, saying that if he were the Son of God he would come down from the Cross and they would believe Him.***

Without responsibility, there can be no judgement. What are the Reformed going to be Judged on? Some Reformed claim that they will only be Judged on whether they were frogmarched by the Holy Spirit and the reprobate will be Judged upon not being frogmarched.

At any rate, neither is Judgement and the automatons are neither guilty of sin nor worthy of anything at all.


5,916 posted on 05/29/2008 10:33:01 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr; stfassisi; Forest Keeper
Without responsibility, there can be no judgement. What are the Reformed going to be Judged on?

Who gets to spend eternity either in the heavenly penthouse with a view, or a basement of the heavenly skyscrapers. :)

But even that has been "preordianed" by the Reformed God, so when the Bible says all over the place that we will be judged for what we have done (for our deeds) it is only a "figure of speech" to the Reformed eyes and ears. They don't see those words and they don't hear them; and for sure their random verse generators don't recognize them.

That's because in the Deformed world what you and I do is not really "our" doing. Everyone has been prejudged for things God preordianed they will do.

The bottom line is: We are judged, like everything else in the Reformed theology, "just because."

5,936 posted on 05/29/2008 9:00:59 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: MarkBsnr; kosta50; stfassisi
You MUST accept the Grace of God.

No argument from the Reformed there. :)

Without responsibility, there can be no judgment. What are the Reformed going to be Judged on? Some Reformed claim that they will only be Judged on whether they were frogmarched by the Holy Spirit and the reprobate will be Judged upon not being frogmarched.

FOR SALVATION, the Reformed are going to be judged on the substitutionary work of Christ on the cross. Was what Christ did good enough to atone for all our sins? The Reformed say Yes. Others say No, Christ's sacrifice was NOT GOOD ENOUGH, more is required. That is, works of merit are required to make oneself worthy of entry into Heaven. We think that view cheapens what Christ did for us.

5,946 posted on 05/30/2008 12:24:44 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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